Recommendation for trimless Fire-rate/LED/Dimmable spots

[DeanAlan]

We have about 30 spots to go in throughout our ground floor, wiring loop already in place and now selecting the product.

 

Prices seem to be all over the place from £70/per unit down to maybe £13/per unit. Finding it hard to spot (yeh, on purpose) the differences and what I actually need.

 

My electrician fancied "Aurora MPRO Trim-Less Downlight 3000K White", circa £35, but then there are "EMC300" at around £16. Then there is KSR Lighting

KSRDL400 with Trimless bezel. Most of these seem to be GU10 fitting (and we would use the LED version).

Why do I need to be aware of the colour temperature of the fitting at this stage? Does it place different demands on any internal circuitry in the housing?

 

My electrician was suggestion to Aurar as they can be pulled and and replaced if they develop a fault. Can't you do that with all of them?

 

 

 

Would appreciate some advice on the differences, what to look for, what is needed and then please just tell me which one 🙂

 

Thanks in advance.

 

cheers,

-Dean

[Temp]

5 minutes ago, DeanAlan said:

Why do I need to be aware of the colour temperature of the fitting at this stage? Does it place different demands on any internal circuitry in the housing?

 

No. If they are GU10 you can replace the bulb with a different colour temperature later. Just adds a bit to the cost if you don't like the ones supplied with the fitting.

 

 

 

[Temp]

20 minutes ago, DeanAlan said:

We have about 30 spots to go in throughout our ground floor, wiring loop already in place and now selecting the product.

 

Has your electrician assumed any particular beam angle?  eg what spacing are they?

 

If you use narrow beam angle bulbs they may need to be a bit closer together than if you use wide angle bulbs. Narrow angle bulbs spaced too far apart give an uneven spotty effect.

 

My own preference in a kitchen is to use wider angle bulbs (120 degree) to give an even light distribution with fewer shadows (but admittedly more glare). Not sure if they work well in deeply recessed fitting like the Aurora MPRO Trim-Less. 

 

In coridors  a narrower beam can give a more atmospheric effect.

 

Its a marmite thing.

 

https://www.fullamps.com/how-to-choose-the-right-beam-angle-for-your-led-downlights-a.html

 

https://www.arrowelectricals.co.uk/blog/what-is-the-best-beam-angle-for-downlights/#:~:text=The beam angle of 60,suitable for standard ceiling heights.&text=If you are looking to,angle is a great option.

Edited March 20, 2023 by Temp

[DeanAlan]

Thanks @Temp

We're at 1.2m centres. I get your point about Kitchen v Corridor. These can be handled with led bulb changes - now that I'm aware of the topic.

 

Do all 240v LED spots contains management circuitry on board themselves - and hence can develop a fault - or are they just mechanical/thermal housing for the LED bulb and that does all the work.

 

It would seem that you have to obtain a housing that is dimmable or not which would suggests it has some smarts built in.

 

These are all the little things I'm grappllng with.

 

cheers,

-Dean

 

 

[Rob99]

Unless you are fitting individually controllable lights then dimming (or not) is done at the circuit level not in the fitting. Most 230v spotlights, especially those with interchangeble lamps (e.g.GU10), won't have anything "inside" except the electrical connection and lamp socket. As has been said, dimmable or not, colour temp and beam angle etc are all lamp specs so can be changed with different lamps.

 

Generally with fittings that have interchangebale lamps I would say just find the one that you like the look of the best and suits your room.

Edited March 20, 2023 by Rob99

[Alan Ambrose]

I hope this is still on-topic as I've got a similar job to do soon:

 

Does 'fire rated' mean they're air-tight and also that can you put insulation right over them without being concerned about them over-heating?

[DeanAlan]

@Rob99thanks. As I'm looking at trimless then it would seem that "look" isn't that important either as all (mostly) hidden except the internal cone.

I do wonder why some of the spots identify themselves as dimmable or not but maybe that is about some of them coming a lamp rather than the mechanical fitting itself.

 

I think I am likely going to go with the KSR KSRFRD400 with its extra trimless bezel which old told is about £18 each.

 

I can then mess with lamps later on - although likely to have kitchen being brighter cool white med angle and others being more moody!

 

Will be interested in responses to @Alan Ambrosequestion. I have a couple of these going up into first floor ceiling and would be keen for them to be airtight. They might need an extra cowling for that to be the case.

 

Cheers all.

- Dean

[Temp]

4 hours ago, DeanAlan said:

Do all 240v LED spots contains management circuitry on board themselves - and hence can develop a fault - or are they just mechanical/thermal housing for the LED bulb and that does all the work.

 

There are so many combinations..

 

Some use replacable bulbs like GU10 (normally 240V) or MR16 (normally 12V).

 

Modern fixings mostly have non-replacable bulbs. These either have an integrated controller or a seperate controller. For example this type has an external 36V controller..

 

https://dtrelectricalsupplies.co.uk/product/jcc-v50-led-downlight-7-5w-dimmable-fire-rated-colour-selectable-white/?gclid=CjwKCAjwiOCgBhAgEiwAjv5whJ74BfNqFOesyrym3cskZ2A0xelSrP3i6PKLdMo46cGkbVG1C5X05xoCR6oQAvD_BwE

 

However you couldn't replace that external controller with a simple 36V transformer because the LED part requires a constant current source. 

 

This type has an internal controller so just needs 240v.

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Recessed-Dimmable-Downlights-Adjustable-Spotlights/dp/B09F6K7R9X/ref=asc_df_B09F6K7R9X/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=606820137551&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=15489159648292921766&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1006886&hvtargid=pla-1682828933183&psc=1

 

If going for that type I would buy a few spares.

 

The issue of dimming is a whole other topic/nightmare.

 

Some LED bulbs cannot be dimmed. Others flicker badly for different reasons, some to do with the bulb and some to do with the dimmer. Sometimes the flicker is only obvious when you have multiple fittings on one dimmer.

 

Worst flicker I've had was from 5 bulbs of the LED "filament" style in a chandelier.  

 

Best success Ive had is dimming Osram Parthom GU10 LED bulbs on a trailing edge dimmer. I have an array of 12 x 600lm bulbs In a living room and boy is that bright on max power. No flickering at all when dimmed right down to nothing.

 

 For a utility room there are plenty of really good LED battens. Many have non-replaceable bulbs but I've not had one fail yet.