The science behind sewage treatment plants

[saveasteading]

53 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said:

It'll just keep the foul drain wet and help flush stuff through"

The tank is always full. A gallon flush goes in one end and a gallon of treated comes almost immediately out of the other end.

The tanks are designed for a typical mix of wee, poo and waste water.* A significant change to the mix will slow the process. So the stuff in the third chamber might be pretty unpleasant still, but will still be expelled.

Rainwater running in pushes sewage out, far too early, so it is dirty.

A lot of roof rain could fill the tank, and hence flush it through completely. So the soakaway is completely full of festering sewage and the tank is full of cleanish water.

 

No rainwater should ever go into the sewage system.

 

* for a non domestic situation, the mix may be different. There is a formula and it generally requires a bigger tank.

[saveasteading]

On 29/03/2023 at 22:29, Roger440 said:

Government type comes round twice a year to test the outfall. Woebetide you if it fails.

The EU has a rule along these lines, but implementation varies. It is to prevent sewage going into watercourses, especially where it links to drinking water. Likewise to stop it entering the aquifer.

Sensible really. The problem is that historic sewage tanks are not covered...we have a m3 brick thing from 100 years ago, and it is surprising it works at all. The grey outflow heads off to a soakaway.

 

New treatment tanks require a testing chamber on the outlet side. I don't know if the EA (scotland SEPA) are entitled to test.

[ToughButterCup]

23 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

...

A lot of roof rain could fill the tank, and hence flush it through completely. So the soakaway is completely full of festering sewage and the tank is full of cleanish water.

 

No rainwater should ever go into the sewage system.

...

 

In our case the rainwater will have flushed much of the the foul water into our local stream. Albeit the effect of the deluge will have been mitigated by the sheer volume of clean water added to the liquor. 

 

It's really annoying : I used to trust BCOs. Not any more.

[saveasteading]

9 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said:

used to trust BCOs. 

Among some of them there is an arrogance which can only have been taught or encouraged. I think it comes also from mostly dealing with small builders and home owners, who seldom challenge them. 

They don't know how little they know.

 

There are good ones of course.

 

An example that sticks in my mind was a small area of paving in a much bigger project. Due to an obstruction I redesigned on the spot, and explained it to the bco (boy at day release stage). He told me it wasn't acceptable. Why not? Couldn't say. I explained the engineering and he didn't like that. I said I would send him an Engineer' letter justifying it. He said pahhh, Engineers will write anything you pay them for.

I wrote him the letter and heard no more. Never met him again fortunately.

 

With a few more years self confidence I  would have written an official complaint.

 

Another standard is they say ' take another 100mm out of the trench'. I ask why, and they don't know.

I'm always polite.

 

Lastly an argument over 4 storeys of timber stairs. The very senior bco wanted them ripped out and made of concrete. Eventually (weeks),  he accepted what the regs say, but was livid. We changed inspectors to one that is interested and collaborative....like teamwork.....

 

It can be OK. 

I do sympathise a bit that they get aggro and perhaps abuse, and are expected make decisions beyond their knowledge.

 

Now about your tank......

 

 

 

[saveasteading]

About your tank.

My 1m3 brick thing was chucking out nasties in the rain and the soakaway was blocked.

I had the tank sucked clean, and repaired a bit of the pipework. Also sucked down the pipe towards the rubble doakaway.

 

Most importantly I diverted 2 rwp away from the drains. They now just go to barrels and overflow to the ground. It is only 1/3 of the roof rain, but it has made all the difference.

In winter, the barrel taps can be set slightly open to drain gently, ready for the next downpour.

The soakaway also recovered over a few months of, I assume, bacterial help.

[SteamyTea]

2 hours ago, ToughButterCup said:

the poo tank started smelling

Does it smell any worse than the neighbours cesspit?

The neighbour you complained about.

[ToughButterCup]

Yes it does. 

The complaint was about their failure to do anything about the legality of the installation. The smell coming from their site was (and still is) incidental.

[ToughButterCup]

Luckily for us, we drain to a free-flowing stream. So the consequences - for us -  of the over-flow are minimal. Pumping it out and a yearly service will sort everything out. But I feel a bit bad for the local wildlife.

 

I had no idea how important a gentle slope to a stream can be in assisting the free-flow of foul water

[Crunchynut]

Your story does back up the original premise of the thread - that these things are legislated for on paper but not understood in practice, and hence the aim of the legislation is missed ….. most of the time anyway.

 

So it comes down to the intelligence and diligence of owners to do the right thing, with not much substantive and reliable intel to support them.

[ToughButterCup]

54 minutes ago, Crunchynut said:

...

So it comes down to the intelligence and diligence of owners to do the right thing, with not much substantive and reliable intel to support them.

 

The Poo Plot  thickens.

 

I rang up BioPure (ours is the 1- 5 version) and talked to their expert. Told him the whole sob story.

 

After ruminating for a bit he said

"Know what: try leaving your tank as it is. It might just get itself together  again. Oh, and tell your BCO to - [ ... I leave the rest to your fetid imaginations ...] "

 

Smart fella- because thats what I was going to do. 

Now -  how long do you recon I can convince the two wimmin in my life (daughter / wife)  that doing nothing is the best idea?

 

Week? Ten days?

There is ZERO chance that I can get them to read this thread.

Lets pray for a windy week or two..... Please God - no blocking High pressure systems please.

 

 

[saveasteading]

1 hour ago, ToughButterCup said:

doing nothing is the best idea?

We know you don't  mean this.

 

Best idea for an easy life perhaps, until the next time. And allowing what the water companies are doing... ditching sewage into a river in storm conditions. Somebody else's problem, esp water life downstream.

 

You probably have til the winter to find an easy way to divert at least some rain to barrels or onto the land.

A barrel is £30, and the clever rain diverter is sometimes included.

Then sleep easy that you have done 'a good thing.

Tell the family ASAP and they will be proud of you.

[ToughButterCup]

1 hour ago, saveasteading said:

We know you don't  mean this.

...

Then sleep easy that you have done 'a good thing.

...

 

 

Diverter ordered (for the down-spout). Digger on site today for a dig-out tomorrow to redirect the piggery roof supply to the pond.

 

The stupid thing is that, based on that BCOs (poor) advice in relation to the piggery, we created  a small pond supplied by water from the house roof run-off (and a spring).The house roof delivers water to the pond. 

[Crunchynut]

Again, back to the point of this thread, why wasn’t the manufacturer rep horrified at the thought of rainwater running into their plant? 
 

We can all see that such an arrangement will upset the sensitive eco system within it and it won’t work properly and will pollute.
 

They should have instantly spotted the cause, the consequence and the remedial action necessary to get their plant performing to spec.
 

 

 

 

 

[ToughButterCup]

11 hours ago, Crunchynut said:

Again, back to the point of this thread, why wasn’t the manufacturer rep horrified at the thought of rainwater running into their plant? 
...

 

He was horrified.

That bit of his feedback was hidden in the [...I leave the rest to your fetid imagination ....] above.

He was very critical indeed of the advice given . From memory he questioned the training - or rather lack of it - among BCOs. 

 

Off to dig a new rainwater drain now.....

[saveasteading]

56 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said:

training - or rather lack of it - among BCOs. 

Mostly day release, but taught by who, I hate to think.

Or a relevant degree. Then more training, by who......ditto

 

Every aspect of construction, and they cannot be taught everything.

Hence lesson one should be.....don't dabble, you don't know as as much as you think.

 

1 hour ago, ToughButterCup said:

Off to dig a new rainwater drain now.....

 

May i suggest perforated pipe with membrane surround. It is cheap and easy, and acts as a soakaway for drizzle, with only big downpours reaching your pond. Unless the pond needs constant topping up, in which case don't.

[Crunchynut]

12 hours ago, ToughButterCup said:

 

He was horrified.

That bit of his feedback was hidden in the [...I leave the rest to your fetid imagination ....] above.

He was very critical indeed of the advice given . From memory he questioned the training - or rather lack of it - among BCOs. 

 

Off to dig a new rainwater drain now.....

Ah good. There is some hope then!

[ToughButterCup]

10 hours ago, Crunchynut said:

Ah good. There is some hope then!

 

This morning: still air, no wind at all.

 

No smell.  It's mended itself over about 10 days.....

 

Diverter to be installed soon - and not missing a trick SWMBO says

"Oh, I'll order a decent waterbutt then. "

Have you seen how expensive they are?

😔

[SteamyTea]

46 minutes ago, ToughButterCup said:

"Oh, I'll order a decent waterbutt then. "

Have you seen how expensive they are?

Make one.

Could be like a rock waterfall, or one in the shape of a fish, or camel.

[saveasteading]

2 hours ago, ToughButterCup said:

Have you seen how expensive they are?

£30 or £40 for simple plastic ones. Then jumps to hundreds. 

 

[ToughButterCup]

2 hours ago, saveasteading said:

....  Then jumps to hundreds. 

 

 

Guess which she chose .... she's right of course... Cough.