Newbie looking to ask questions on planning

[Jsmith7]

Come across this forum when looking about class q planning. 
I own 2 acres of land near Aylesbury Bucks and I am exploring class q but am still

none the wiser… 

so it has buildings (stables) 

first block got in 1989 

second block got in 2007 

I’m under the impression it’s not been changed to equestrian land. 
Is it sounding likely so far?

thanks 

joe 
 

[Temp]

It's important that the buildings have been in agricultural use for 10 years. If they really have been used as stables for horses then you should be OK.

 

If there is any evidence of other use such as storing cars or garden equipment that could be problematic. That includes evidence on old Google Earth/street view images.

 

The building must also be "capable of being converted" technically. Eg not in such bad condition that they require significant knocking down and rebuilding. Underpinning is allowed I think. 

 

3 hours ago, Jsmith7 said:

I’m under the impression it’s not been changed to equestrian land

 

So what is/was it before the stables were built? Were they built within the planning rules?

 

This whole area can be a bit of a minefield and making the wrong or too early approach to the planners can mess up your chances if you don't know what you are doing. In view of the likely value in your part of the world I would employ a planning consultant in stages. Eg Initially to just give you an opinion on the sites chances of passing the tests for class Q and anything you need to do to maximise the chances first. If that looks OK then get him to quote for submitting a class Q prior notice application. For that second stage you may need them surveyed and architects drawings done etc

 

 

 

 

Edited February 16, 2023 by Temp

[Tom]

If they are stables, and have been used as such, then as far as I'm aware they aren't agricultural so aren't eligible for part Q

Happy to be proven wrong though, and agree with Temp that getting the opinion of a planning consultant would be the first step. Different planning departments seem to interpret the rules slightly differently so local knowledge would be key.

Edited February 16, 2023 by Tom

[Jsmith7]

Thanks for the replies. 
Basically I’m just exploring any options I have. 
I haven’t changed the use of the land so I still believe it’s agricultural land. 
Yes I’ve kept horses there but also other animals, ducks, chickens, goats and sheep only real proof I have is a holding number. 
 

I’m awaiting a structural engineer to see what he thinks to being converted. 

[Tom]

It doesn't matter what the land is classified as, it's all down to the buildings themselves - and if they are stables that have been used for horses, then as above I'm pretty sure you can't go down the class Q route.

I would forget the structural engineer now too - whether or not they are structurally capable of being converted is kinda moot. Get an opinion from a planning consultant - if they believe that they are worth pursuing then you find a "friendly" structural engineer to write a very carefully worded report to go along with the application. When you have the part Q, apply for full planning to knock down and rebuild (planners often take the Class Q as a fallback position so are then inclined to grant full planning - at least in some areas, search your local planning portal).

[Temp]

1 hour ago, Jsmith7 said:

Yes I’ve kept horses there but also other animals, ducks, chickens, goats and sheep only real proof I have is a holding number. 

 

Receipts for animal feed or similar? 

 

May well be historic satellite images but not sure if sheep are large enough to show up. My house built in 2007 shows up partly constructed on one set so I could prove when it was built. 

 

 

 

[Tom]

Trouble is I don't think a smallholding is agricultural either. There is a minimum size, and I don't think 2 acres is it.

[Temp]

46 minutes ago, Tom said:

Trouble is I don't think a smallholding is agricultural either. There is a minimum size, and I don't think 2 acres is it.

 

In which case was planning permission needed for the stables?

[IanR]

5 hours ago, Jsmith7 said:

Yes I’ve kept horses there but also other animals, ducks, chickens, goats and sheep only real proof I have is a holding number. 

 

When was the building last used, and what was it used for?

 

Has it ever been part of a commercial farm? 

 

If it's last used was equestrian, then as that's not Agricultural, it's unlikely to qualify for a Class Q conversion.

 

 

[Jsmith7]

It has planning for the stables. 
it’s still being used now for horses so maybe I’ll go and buy some sheep. 

[IanR]

2 hours ago, Jsmith7 said:

 so maybe I’ll go and buy some sheep. 

 

If the building has come into Agricultural Use after 20th March 2013, then unfortunately you'll have to wait 10 years after the date on which it came into Agricultural Use, before it is eligible for Class Q conversion.

 

The other issue you may have is that just keeping farm animals doesn't cross the threshold for "Agricultural". The building must be part of (or was previously part of) an "established Agricultural Unit". As such, it needs to have been a working farm. That tends to be interpreted as able to sustain a farm worker that is earning the majority of their income from the farm.

[Jsmith7]

Thanks 

[Jilly]

I know of a person with a small holding who lived on his site in a static to guard his animals and eventually got pp to live there (not sure if with an agricultural occupancy) and they now have a smart log cabin since the planning rules have been relaxed a little. There are some nice caravan compliant design options for the future. Might need the long game and a bit of creativity. Reassure your neighbours you don’t want a housing estate maybe? Or look into paragraph 80. 

Edited May 29, 2023 by Jilly

[Dave Jones]

you need professional planning advice, soo many variables some minor that can swing things. Will need to drop around £5k on them but if its gets you planning its cheap.