A couple of dumb questions...

[Alan Ambrose]

>>> average wholesale price they pay is around 5p/kWh

 

OK, well I guess it's about time I started my electricity markets education...

 

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/energy-data-and-research/data-portal/wholesale-market-indicators

 

These do seem to suggest 3-5p per kWh.

 

So, why are we being charged anywhere between 15-43p?

 

The fuel markets seem to have only a 50% markup?

 

https://www.racfoundation.org/data/wholesale-fuel-prices-v-pump-prices-data

[S2D2]

2 hours ago, PhilT said:

you mean the power supply companies rather than the DNO. The latest average wholesale price they pay is around 5p/kWh so there is no incentive for them to pay us more than that. It's a bit like saying the supermarkets should sell us food at the same price they buy it

 

1 hour ago, Alan Ambrose said:

>>> average wholesale price they pay is around 5p/kWh

 

OK, well I guess it's about time I started my electricity markets education...

 

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/energy-data-and-research/data-portal/wholesale-market-indicators

 

These do seem to suggest 3-5p per kWh.

 

So, why are we being charged anywhere between 15-43p?

 

The fuel markets seem to have only a 50% markup?

 

https://www.racfoundation.org/data/wholesale-fuel-prices-v-pump-prices-data

 

Is it? I thought it was around 15p/kWh?

 

https://www.energy-stats.uk/wholesale-energy-pricing/

https://www.epexspot.com/en/market-data?market_area=GB&trading_date=2023-02-09&delivery_date=2023-02-10&underlying_year=&modality=Auction&sub_modality=DayAhead&product=30&data_mode=table&period=

[Alan Ambrose]

>>> I thought it was around 15p/kWh?

 

Yeah, I think you're right. BTW the Octopus Agile pricing suggests a 120% markup.

[SteamyTea]

I think just looking at the wholesale price is a bit misleading.

I think it excludes taxations/charges/delivery.

Bit like me buying a bread roll for 12p and selling it on for £1.  I have to pay VAT on the whole selling price (bread is VAT except, so can't claim it back), I have to do quite a bit of traceability paperwork, and the big one, it is not unusual to throw 3 rolls away for every one I sell.

So that bread roll actually costs me 48p, add to that 20p VAT, 68p, and say 10p admin, that is 78p, 22p is profit, of which I have to take out staff wages, marketing, general business costs etc.

Can see why nearly all the local bakers have stopped making them now.

Edited February 9, 2023 by SteamyTea

[Temp]

Yes solar panels heat up a bit more when they are off.    

 

If we assume a solar panel is 20% efficient for every 100W of solar energy recieved upto 20W can be converted to electricity. Of the remaining 80% some is reflected and the rest is absorbed raising the temperature until enough is emitted as heat. 

 

The law of conservation of energy means if that 20%/20W isn't removed by the inverter it must escape another way. The reflectivity doesn't increase so the temperature of the panel will increase a bit more until it is radaiting and conducting the extra 20%/20W away. 

[Alan Ambrose]

>>> The law of conservation of energy

 

A very clear explanation, thanks.

 

And I thought that 'conservation of energy' was something to do with lying on the sofa and being too lazy to get the remote. I should have paid more attention in school.

[Temp]

5 hours ago, Alan Ambrose said:

And I thought that 'conservation of energy' was something to do with lying on the sofa and being too lazy to get the remote. I should have paid more attention in school.

 

For that there is also Einstein's idea that energy and mass are equivalent. Eat too much energy and you gain mass. 🙂