ASHP - Samsung Gen 6 - Water Law and the correct settings for Low and High Temps

[Siggles]

Hi. I have a mixture of rads and UFH and a 16kw Gen 6 Samung ASHP, only a year or so since installation.

 

The UFH is all in the newer parts of the house, well insulated etc, the rads in the older parts. I am looking for someone who knows these systems well, in particular the Samsung Gen 6 control panel and setting the correct Water Law settings. There are conflicting videos on YouTube regarding what to set for 202* Water Out Temp, Low: Target value and High: Target Value. Some vids say high number on lef and some say vice versa.

 

Any experts on this controller and setup? If you look at the attached image, that is what it was set to for the last year. I just upped the right figure to over 40- and the rads are now hotter. But some say the numbers should be reversed?!

[ReedRichards]

Will it actually let you apply the settings either way round?  You would hope there would be an error message if you got it wrong.

[Siggles]

This is from the manual, if you look at 202* it says the higher number should be on the right. This contradicts a lot of YouTube videos from experts (but not all). So seems mine is back to front, which explains a lot.

[Siggles]

1 minute ago, ReedRichards said:

Will it actually let you apply the settings either way round?  You would hope there would be an error message if you got it wrong.

Gonna give it a try. I raised the figure on the right to over 40 and my rads have never been so hot.

[ReedRichards]

2 minutes ago, Siggles said:

...I raised the figure on the right to over 40 and my rads have never been so hot.

 Which is good for heating your house quickly and making sure it is warm enough but not so good for your running costs.

[Siggles]

2 minutes ago, ReedRichards said:

 Which is good for heating your house quickly and making sure it is warm enough but not so good for your running costs.

I agree but the rads were not doing anything at all. In temps like today -2 for example, they were luke warm. I just swapped the settings and now the Water Outlet shows 42.2 and rising. I'm chuffed tbh, also annoyed it took so long for me to look in to it and annoyed the installer set it wrong.

[JohnMo]

Installers want to in and out asap, so set everything high.

 

So you are trying to set weather compensation (which they seem to call water law) from the looks of it.  Any figures you have seen are applicable to someone else's house are very unlikely to apply to yours.  Basically you are trying to balance heat loss with heat input.

 

If you leave the water law (201) set as per defaults, the heating will start at 15 degrees and keep increasing temp until the outside temp gets down to -10.  This all sounds ok for a starting point.  So I would leave these as is, unless you know you don't have the heating on until the average temp outside is say 10 deg. If so set to this figure.

 

Then at with the default setting (202) at 15 your heating flow temp is 25 and at -10 it be 40 deg.

 

So if you set everything back to those settings - ignore what the rads feel like.  Move all your room thermostats up to about 24 degs, so they don't interfere with anything.  Does your room get up to temp, at low temps it takes a while, so leave until tomorrow.  Now if your main room is too cool increase 202 high figure a couple of degrees.  If too hot reduce a couple of degs  .... repeat until happy.  Once happy with your main room,  are other rooms how you want them, if not you will need to balance the rads to suit.

 

 

[Siggles]

5 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

Installers want to in and out asap, so set everything high.

 

So you are trying to set weather compensation (which they seem to call water law) from the looks of it.  Any figures you have seen are applicable to someone else's house are very unlikely to apply to yours.  Basically you are trying to balance heat loss with heat input.

 

If you leave the water law (201) set as per defaults, the heating will start at 15 degrees and keep increasing temp until the outside temp gets down to -10.  This all sounds ok for a starting point.  So I would leave these as is, unless you know you don't have the heating on until the average temp outside is say 10 deg. If so set to this figure.

 

Then at with the default setting (202) at 15 your heating flow temp is 25 and at -10 it be 40 deg.

 

So if you set everything back to those settings - ignore what the rads feel like.  Move all your room thermostats up to about 24 degs, so they don't interfere with anything.  Does your room get up to temp, at low temps it takes a while, so leave until tomorrow.  Now if your main room is too cool increase 202 high figure a couple of degrees.  If too hot reduce a couple of degs  .... repeat until happy.  Once happy with your main room,  are other rooms how you want them, if not you will need to balance the rads to suit.

 

 

Thank you. It was more about whether *202 figures were the wrong way round. I feel they must have been as the Water Outlet figure was never above 40, even on very cold days. So the rads never got much past Luke Warm - I only have one thermostat for all rads in different parts of the house BTW.

 

By swapping the numbers round, the Water Outlet temp is now at 46 and climbing and the rads are hot.

 

I just want confirmation I've done the right thing. Someone else who has it set this way before I can be sure I've done it right.

[ReedRichards]

3 hours ago, JohnMo said:

So if you set everything back to those settings - ignore what the rads feel like.  Move all your room thermostats up to about 24 degs, so they don't interfere with anything.  Does your room get up to temp, at low temps it takes a while, so leave until tomorrow.  Now if your main room is too cool increase 202 high figure a couple of degrees.  If too hot reduce a couple of degs  .... repeat until happy.  Once happy with your main room,  are other rooms how you want them, if not you will need to balance the rads to suit.

 

 

@JohnMois an advocate of "hard core" weather compensation.  This may be highly effective if you want to keep your house at the same temperature 24/7 but if you don't then the system can become very slow to change the temperature when you want it to.  And your controller may not have the capability to change the weather compensation settings when you want to change the room temperature - which is what you would need to do. 

 

Personally I would decide how long I am prepared to wait for my main room the increase in temperature by, say one degree.  I would have thought that 2 hours is the longest I would find acceptable.  If it takes longer than that I would conclude that the high setting is too low and increase it by a couple of degrees.  The end result would be weather compensation settings similar to those determined by @JohnMo's method but with water temperatures a bit higher  (you would have to repeat in spring when its warmer out and change the low setting to suit).  This won't give you the ultimate in low running cost but it will give you the capability to easily change your room temperature if you want to.       

[Siggles]

I'm so chuffed to have finally got the rads to a good temperature - I honestly thought it was just that the ASHP was incapable of getting them hot, but in hindsight that's ridiculous. I think all along I could have raised it anyway using the 0.5 increments on the control panel but I'd rather it working as it should have using Water Compensation/Law. When it was set incorrectly, it would have made the radiators hotter in the summer (if they were actually on), in other words the curve or graph was the wrong way round. There's still YT videos online giving the wrong advice. Woke up this morning and the Water Outlet temp is 50c, temp outside -2. There's a room in the old part of the house with one rad that usually doesn't increase it in temp on really cold days, today it is 🙂 Whoop whoop!

[ReedRichards]

I'm sure it is very gratifying to find that your heat pump really can do the job it is meant to do and keep your house warm.  Just don't read the meter to see how much electricity it is consuming at the moment.  Yesterday I beat my personal record with 65.8 kWh in 24 hours.

[Siggles]

On 14/12/2022 at 09:36, ReedRichards said:

I'm sure it is very gratifying to find that your heat pump really can do the job it is meant to do and keep your house warm.  Just don't read the meter to see how much electricity it is consuming at the moment.  Yesterday I beat my personal record with 65.8 kWh in 24 hours.

Haha. I took a peek and mine was 90kwh yesterday. I do have a 16kw one and a 5 bed house though. Yikes.

[ReedRichards]

At these low outside temperatures your "water law" settings (if correct) probably won't make much difference because you would expect your heat pump to be running at close to its maximum output temperature.  It's in spring and autumn when getting those settings right can save you money.

[Suraj]

Siggles.

Thank you for raising this topic, my radiators in the past 12 months has never exceeded 39degC and the temperature would never exceed 17degC. 

I have changed my settings as suggested above, and wow the radiators are now reaching 47degC. Finally a warm house.

Downside being daily electricity usage has increased a lot. 

Thank you.

 

[pimpi]

Can you guys please post a picture of your consumption and generation during last week ?

[George]

Yikes... I have a 16kW Gen6 as well.

 

ASHP (and any well designed low-flow temperature system) radiators are not meant to be hot. So long as the air temperature in the room is right, then the radiator should be lukewarm.

 

The Low in the first image refers to the weather compensation.

Low = low external temperature = highest target flow temp to compensate.

High = high external temperature = lowest flow rate as energy losses will be lower.

 

EDIT - actually I'm wrong. This is reversed in the two settings. I'm going to reread the manual and check my own settings...

 

 

 

You should be tweaking three things: the flow rate temperature and the high/low limits for when they reach their extremes. 

 

The difference won't be enormous, but for comparison I used ~39kWh when it was -8C for a slight smaller sized 4-bedroom (albeit built in 1880s) house. Nearly half the amount. 

 

 

Edited December 20, 2022 by George

[Siggles]

This is from Joule who also suggest high figure on right.

[Shire2020]

I felt compelled to comment as I’ve had the same system, and have been trying to figure out what’s gone wrong!

 

I’m adjusting the figures and gradually increasing the high number as instructed. There’s definitely more heat flowing through so I’m hoping by the morning it’s fixed the issue!!

 

On the low number, did you leave that at 55 or pull down to the pre set number that was 35 on the guide above?

 

Thanks for sharing, really appreciated!!

[Shire2020]

Hi All, 

This post was really helpful for us as it managed to get our ASHP working properly and gave us heat throughout the winter.

Now that the weather has warmed up and we’ve turned the heating off, should the Water Law numbers be reduced to save electric?

 

Thanks for any wisdom as we’re still quite new to the ASHP. 

[ReedRichards]

Weather Compensation/"Water Law" doesn't apply to heating your hot water so if your space heating is off then the Water Law numbers should make no odds. 

 

Looking outside here, we've had a hard frost and the pond is frozen so you must be living somewhere that's a lot warmer than where I live.

[ian192744]

just wanted to add my 2c to this. The figures in the Graham Hendra Freedom HeatPumps video here  are the wrong way round. I recently self-installed samsung 16kw. followed grahams video's for setup. couldn't get my head round my radiators running cooler when we got a cold snap. the manuals are all very well but they don't say which numbered setting is on the right and which is on the left, and the screen doesn't say which one is which number. not ideal by samsung.

 

anyway in 202* the "Low Target Value" is the lowest LWT temp value that you want to use when its mild . The "High Target Value" is the highest LWT you want to use when its cold.

[Andehh]

Sorry to bump am old thread, but can you set the Samsung to output two different heating temps ie 35degrees for UFH and 50degrees for radiators? 

 

Our towel rails are on a separate zone to the zone 1 and zone 2 for our UFH loops... I would like them to be boosted to 50degrees for 15mins before shower time then shut off, to warm the towels and/or speed up the drying of them. 

 

I tried this today, and the outlet temp hit 37degrees then after about 15mins shut off (short cycling?).... But I'd like it to do this but at 50degrees... I don't think joules have set it up correctly like this though?  So just asking for advice on menus to set the zone 3 temp different to the zone 1 and 2!

 

Thanks

[ReedRichards]

This thread wasn't about zones.  You might be better starting a new thread as people who have already read this one might not pay attention to a comment tacked on.

[Squiggle]

Sorry for bumping an old thread but this has been really useful in correcting the settings in a new house I moved into.

 

One thing I'm confused about, does anyone know what the Indoor temperature on this screen is meant to measure? Mine is always at exactly 20.0 which doesn't make sense to me.

 

 

[ReedRichards]

Well it says "current " so it ought to be the current room temperature wherever your sensor is.  That will be inside the control panel unless you can find a remote sensor somewhere else.  But if that is right then it should change - unless your system is so well-balanced that it always maintains the current temperature at 20 (seems unlikely but possible).