Detailing for cill drainage with a 'flush' finish patio

[SBMS]

We are planning the detailing for our sliding doors.  We are having the internal floor level as flush as possible to the top of the track.  We have been trying to get the patio to a similar level, but am resigned probably to the fact there is going to be a step down to accommodate the track and the cill.  Looking at putting an acro slot in adjacent to the cill and then tiling up to that.

 

First Question is - I understand the cill has weep holes in bottom for water flow out from doors. In this detailing below where does the cill drain to?:

 

 

Second question - is there any way for us to have a more flush finish (perhaps by losing the cill or tiling over it?) This is our threshold detail for the sliding doors:

 

[Dan F]

We used these for level threshold: https://www.aquabocci.co.uk/products/r-47-x-blade-drain

 

Looks like you need to order your sliders with a different cill type, or with an additional profile that can be added on to create a flush finnish.   With the sliders we got @craig made sure they were supplied with the correct level-threshold cill.

[MJNewton]

The cill itself won’t have any weep holes in it - they will be in the aluminium profile that sits above it. Specifically, I expect they’ll be in the front section (in that little cutout section).

 

What make are your sliding doors? Are they Reynaers?

Edited December 6, 2022 by MJNewton

[SBMS]

1 minute ago, MJNewton said:

The cill itself won’t have any weep holes in it - they will be in the aluminium profile that sits above it. Specifically, I expect they’ll be in the front section (in that little cutout section).

 

What make are your sliding doors? Are they Reynaers?

Yes they are CP130s. Is there another flush or cill option?

[craig]

Why is the cill specified? Who is supplying you with the sliders, what make? Looks similar to Reynaers Masterline CP130/155s
 

That track should have bottom or front drainage options if Reynaers. With that cill detail you have zero chance of a flush threshold, get rid of it.

Edited December 6, 2022 by craig

[MJNewton]

I thought it looked familiar.

 

We’ve got a set of CP130’s (LS variant so lift-and-slide) and don’t have a cill. The frame sits on and flush with the outer brick face. It’s one course up so a different arrangement to yours. I’ll see if I can dig out a photo if it might help.

[SBMS]

1 minute ago, craig said:

Why is the cill specified? Who is supplying you with the sliders, what make? They look similar to Reynaers Masterline. 
 

That track should have bottom or front drainage options by the looks off. With tgat cill detail you have zero chance of a flush threshold.

Yes they are reynaers cp130s. I agree the cill isn’t right for outdoor flush. Do you know if raynaers provide a flush cill? Or can we put the track straight onto something like the blade drain?

[craig]

Yes they do, I’ll dig it tomorrow.

[SBMS]

2 minutes ago, MJNewton said:

I thought it looked familiar.

 

We’ve got a set of CP130’s (LS variant so lift-and-slide) and don’t have a cill. The frame sits on and flush with the outer brick face. It’s one course up so a different arrangement to yours. I’ll see if I can dig out a photo if it might help.

That would be really useful I’m going round in circles trying to work out what’s best detail. How does water drain out from frame if no cill? When you say it’s one course up what do you mean?

[SBMS]

Just now, craig said:

Yes they do, I’ll dig it tomorrow.

Thanks Craig that’d be awesome

[craig]

[SBMS]

Just now, craig said:

Is it just me then, or is the cill pointless? Or is it just catching the water flowing out of the track at the front and directing it away?

[craig]

It’s pointless, it’s not needed and completely unnecessary, especially if you have drainage in front. There’s no point to have that cill detail added.

Edited December 6, 2022 by craig

[SBMS]

1 minute ago, craig said:

It’s pointless, it’s not needed and completely unnecessary, especially if you have drainage in front. There’s no point to have that cill detail added.

OK, least I'm not going mad. Is a different type of cill required, or do you put something like the Aquabocci directly in front to take the water from the track? (or both?)

[MJNewton]

10 minutes ago, SBMS said:

That would be really useful I’m going round in circles trying to work out what’s best detail. How does water drain out from frame if no cill? When you say it’s one course up what do you mean?

 

Here's a rather fuzzy enlarged zoomed crop which hopefully illustrates:

 

 

You can see the plastic-capped drainage points at periodic intervals along the front (one on the left had fallen out at the time of the photo being taken!).

 

The drain in front is a 'Deck-a-Drain' channel:

 

Edited December 6, 2022 by MJNewton

[craig]

Just now, SBMS said:

do you put something like the Aquabocci directly in front to take the water from the track? (or both?)

Exactly this, or some type of slot drain or channel drain.

[SBMS]

1 minute ago, craig said:

Exactly this, or some type of slot drain or channel drain.

So just to be 100% - no cill required at all? Track directly onto outer blockwork with an acro channel/slot drain/aquabocci directly in front of it?Just got a bit confused as you mentioned Raynaers do a flush cill (which I can't, now, see the point of)

[craig]

This is a flush track system as is, just wasn’t sure it was Reynaers at first. It’s all about detailing, detailed correctly it can be flush internal and external.

[SBMS]

1 minute ago, craig said:

This is a flush track system as is, just wasn’t sure it was Reynaers at first. It’s all about detailing, detailed correctly it can be flush internal and external.

Yep, am getting that now! Tbh, we're sorted inside. as that's just about internal floor levels. It's the external bit we've struggled with.  So if we put a slot drain in front of the track, I assume that the top of the slot needs to be lower than the top of the track profile, for the water to be able to leave? I'm not sure how the drain could be totally flush with the top of the track (my pink dotted line on diagram below), unless the drain took water from the side, rather than the top? (crude drawing below):

 

[craig]

Bring the drain up to purple line and you can use a channel system but slot drain at position you have also works

 

Edited December 6, 2022 by craig

[SBMS]

6 minutes ago, craig said:

Bring the drain up to purple line and you can use a channel system but slot drain at position you have also works

 

Thanks Craig - this has been incredibly useful.  I was just going to say that it seems the aquabocci system referenced earlier looks like it would work. But is also crazy expensive! Have you a link to the metal one you've posted? I've struggled to find anything that permits side entry from the door and drainage from the pavers.

[craig]

Sure, but it’s expensive as well. We are the UK retailer for them but you should pbe able to find solutions within the UK which are more cost effective solutions.

 

https://www.richard-brink.de

Edited December 6, 2022 by craig

[SBMS]

7 minutes ago, craig said:

Sure, but it’s expensive as well. We are the UK retailer for them but you should pbe able to find solutions within the UK which are more cost effective solutions.

 

https://www.richard-brink.de

Thanks Craig 👍

[SBMS]

48 minutes ago, MJNewton said:

 

Here's a rather fuzzy enlarged zoomed crop which hopefully illustrates:

 

 

You can see the plastic-capped drainage points at periodic intervals along the front (one on the left had fallen out at the time of the photo being taken!).

 

The drain in front is a 'Deck-a-Drain' channel:

 

Thanks @MJNewton for this, that's great.

[SBMS]

@MJNewton can I ask how far set back your doors are from the front brick face? I am worried that the drainage holes for ours would sit on the brickwork, rather than ‘overhang’ and drain into a threshold drain if you know what I mean? How did you get around this, as I believe the track should be set back from the front face of the brick a little?