December 8, 20223 yr 13 minutes ago, Nick Thomas said: Sure, there will be a certain number of individuals, which will be insignificant when expressed as a proportion of total installs, actual or potential. It did not put BRXIT voter's off, even when the financial consequences were obvious. The alternative could be to add a penny to each kWh consumed by every user. Or add a penny to the daily rate.
December 8, 20223 yr I did a fair bit of handwaving above, and I never like doing that, so I went to find some numbers. https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/solar-photovoltaics-deployment is handy. In Oct 2022, the UK had 3,111MW of installations in the 0-4kW range; and 477MW in the 4-10kW range. Being lazy and assuming that the former is G98 while the latter is G99, and that all installations are the midpoint size (so 2kW and 7kW respectively), that's 1,555,500 and 68,143 installations, respectively. So, 4% of installations in the 0-10kW would require a G99. What's the deterrent effect of a £300 fee? Hard to be sure, but if we were really kind to the premise and said it stopped 50% of potential G99-requiring installs from going ahead, that's another 68,143 "deterred" installs - which also comes to ~4% of total installs in this range. If we said the deterrent effect was 1%, which still feels generous to me, then we're well under 0.1% of total installs deterred. Whatever the number, I expect it's more likely that those deterred would install a G98-compliant system instead than do nothing. This kind of happened to me, although in my case the deterrent was the time it would take to get a G99, rather than the cost of it - I really wanted the panels in ASAP, so I accepted the lower capacity. So, yeah, imma stick with "neither here nor there for adoption".
December 8, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, bertybuttface said: Just because I didn't have to pay it doesn't mean I think others You've been bleating about charges having just been introduced, I show you something that shows you charges have been in place since at least 2014 and that's the best response you can do. Answering with something like " oh I hadnt realised" might have done done a bit for your credibility. I'm out of this futile discussion. Sorry for the derail Umer
December 8, 20223 yr 6 hours ago, Nick Thomas said: @marvin from the detail in your post, i'm perfectly happy to put you in the "rich" category. You're welcome to fill in https://ifs.org.uk/tools_and_resources/where_do_you_fit_in (and an equivalent for household wealth if needed) if you disagree. Curious how blind people can be to their own financial position. If you're spending, I dunno, 8K on solar and 10-50K on an EV, the chances of an extra £300 in admin fees dissuading you from going ahead on those purchases are basically nil. Hi @Nick Thomas We're in the 51% band. Not rich at all. Spending life savings. Not that it's any of your business. Oh and we have 2 cars and mine is a 16 year old Citroën C2 bought from new. What's your vehicle Nick? I am not blind by the way. This comment particulary angers me as we have spent our whole lives scrimping and saving to get where we are now. And yes, when you can save loads using PV to help with the ASHP running costs (NO MAINS GAS HERE BY THE WAY) and the EV (EX DEMOSTATION BY THE WAY) with all systems installed by us, (inspected and passed by others BY THE WAY) the £300 is a small consideration, but not because we are RICH! Back to the surveying costs. If you would like to understand why a survey has to be completed I suggest you contact your DNO, and if you manage to stay polite with them, you may be able to LEARN what it's all about. Marvin.
December 9, 20223 yr > and an equivalent for household wealth if needed Guess you missed that bit ;). Note that I didn't make any distinction between deserved or undeserved riches here; it's all the same for the purposes of this conversation. The important thing is that you agree the £300 is neither here nor there. As for the rest, I too have an ASHP, have removed the mains gas from the house, and have added PV; rather than the EV, we've got a battery and a single petrol Mazda3 bought from new in 2013 (we don't do enough mileage for an EV to be worthwhile). You and I are both in a position only the rich get to be in - using capex to reduce opex. Now, my family, as a not-so-random point of comparison, are not rich. Their energy bills are absolutely crippling them, but they dosn't have the capital to be able to do what you and I are doing. They can't even get as far as insulation, never mind all this other fancy stuff. Recognising our own position vs. this is, I feel, quite important.
December 9, 20223 yr On 08/12/2022 at 12:53, Dillsue said: You've been bleating about charges having just been introduced, I show you something that shows you charges have been in place since at least 2014 and that's the best response you can do. Answering with something like " oh I hadnt realised" might have done done a bit for your credibility. I'm out of this futile discussion. Sorry for the derail Umer The link you sent does not say what you think it does, read it again. These charges for G100 are new. I agree we should park it there though. You have your opinion, I have mine, and that is ok. Also sorry for the derail Umer.
December 9, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, Nick Thomas said: > and an equivalent for household wealth if needed Guess you missed that bit ;). Note that I didn't make any distinction between deserved or undeserved riches here; it's all the same for the purposes of this conversation. The important thing is that you agree the £300 is neither here nor there. As for the rest, I too have an ASHP, have removed the mains gas from the house, and have added PV; rather than the EV, we've got a battery and a single petrol Mazda3 bought from new in 2013 (we don't do enough mileage for an EV to be worthwhile). You and I are both in a position only the rich get to be in - using capex to reduce opex. Now, my family, as a not-so-random point of comparison, are not rich. Their energy bills are absolutely crippling them, but they dosn't have the capital to be able to do what you and I are doing. They can't even get as far as insulation, never mind all this other fancy stuff. Recognising our own position vs. this is, I feel, quite important. Sounds like you'd be happier if the charges were means tested, I could get behind that if thats what it takes to not put people that just about have enough to put solar in off doing so. £300 is the difference between an extra 500 watts of solar panel or not. That's not insignificant. I'm not arguing noone can afford to pay, clearly some of us can, I'm arguing that it shouldn't be more expensive because as you rightly point out many already do not have the necessary capital to expend. We should be lowering the barrier to entry not raising it.
December 9, 20223 yr 681*500W is 340KW. It's a big-ish absolute number, but against 477MW of installed capacity in the 4-10kW range, it is, actually, insignificant - it's literally a rounding error. Against the 3.1GW of installed capacity in the <4kW range, it's even smaller. Means-testing it wouldn't make a great deal of difference, because the people going for G99s are mostly rich anyway, despite their protestations - maybe you go from missing out on 340kW of installed capacity to missing out on 339kW. The size of the effect is just too small for it to make any noticeable difference.
December 11, 20223 yr Author On 09/12/2022 at 14:08, bertybuttface said: The link you sent does not say what you think it does, read it again. These charges for G100 are new. I agree we should park it there though. You have your opinion, I have mine, and that is ok. Also sorry for the derail Umer. No worries, atleast the thread is alive. Right now I am wondering how close to the center of roof I can go in a semi detached house? Do I have to leave some space at the center. If I do than this will cost me two panels. Also how close to the rest of the roof edges I can go?
December 11, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, umer said: No worries, atleast the thread is alive. Right now I am wondering how close to the center of roof I can go in a semi detached house? Do I have to leave some space at the center. If I do than this will cost me two panels. Also how close to the rest of the roof edges I can go? Try here: https://mcscertified.com/standards-tools-library/
December 11, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, umer said: No worries, atleast the thread is alive. Right now I am wondering how close to the center of roof I can go in a semi detached house? Do I have to leave some space at the center. If I do than this will cost me two panels. Also how close to the rest of the roof edges I can go? This document https://mcscertified.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/MIS-3002_Solar-PV-Systems-V4.0.pdf This section. 5.5.2 Edited December 11, 20223 yr by Marvin minor change.
December 11, 20223 yr 1 hour ago, umer said: Right now I am wondering how close to the center of roof I can go in a semi detached house? Do I have to leave some space at the center. If I do than this will cost me two panels. Also how close to the rest of the roof edges I can go? Right to the boundary if you want. On my daughters semi the roofers had a join in the tiles on the boundary so we set the rails in line with the join and the edge of the panels 75mm in from the rail ends. At the edges I think the recommendation is 300-400mm but if youre not in an exposed location, I'd be happy to go down to 200mm if it allows you to have an extra column of panels or to use larger panels.
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