patp Posted March 10, 2023 Author Share Posted March 10, 2023 This is the resolution that Spartek are offering. I can never fully eliminate human error and people will always make mistakes – All I can do is put things right and I hope you are happy with our resolution today. -------------------------------------- To Summarize: Issues Low generation due to unconnected string since installation. Loss of export payments due to paperwork returned incorrect and in an untimely manor. Resolutions Spartek to compensate for calculated loss of generation of approx. 3500kwh based on current 20/80 usage/export ratio (export rate TBC) Spartek to compensate for loss of export (export rate TBC) Good Will Spartek to replace existing Solis Inverter for new Huawei Hybrid inverter FOC as good will gesture & set up Huawei’s high end monitoring system. Spartek to connect ‘lost string’ at same time --------------------------------------------------- There is no mention of the positioning of the panels that are in shade. He denies that the shade is having any effect on generation. I give below the shade report from our advisor - Shade report (1).pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patp Posted March 15, 2023 Author Share Posted March 15, 2023 MCS have escalated the complaint to NICEIC. Will update when I know more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillsue Posted March 15, 2023 Share Posted March 15, 2023 Did they say why they've involved NICEIC? Most of the issues youve got are solar/MCS issues but if the dangling cables were connected to panels and live then NICEIC would have an interest in that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patp Posted March 16, 2023 Author Share Posted March 16, 2023 No they did not give a reason. I assumed that is where they sent all cases considered to be in need of mediation. Yes the strings are dangling. I wondered why the company wanted to come out to sort them out once they were discovered. Are they dangerous? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 9 minutes ago, patp said: No they did not give a reason Probably just kicking the can down the road. 9 minutes ago, patp said: Are they dangerous? Only for half the year, when it is daylight. They should be reasonably safe if the ends have the standard connectors on them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susie Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 If the company was NICEIC registered then if NICEIC find it at fault and particularly dangerous they can ask another company to put right it it’s part of the guarantee covering NICEIC registered installers. If particularly bad the original installer will then lose their NICEIC registration. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patp Posted March 16, 2023 Author Share Posted March 16, 2023 Thanks. I like the option of another company putting the matter right. Does anyone advise on compensation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted March 16, 2023 Share Posted March 16, 2023 5 minutes ago, patp said: I like the option of another company putting the matter right They may only put the electrical side right to make it safe. Then walk away. MCS are probably using this as an excuse to not put the real problems right, well at least for the time being. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patp Posted March 29, 2023 Author Share Posted March 29, 2023 No progress to report on this I am afraid. We seem to be going round in circles. All Tina at NIEIC does is ask me for "evidence" of the bad installation. It does not seem enough that Spartek have admitted to most of the errors and offered to put most of them right. We just have a disagreement over them wanting to replace the Solis inverter with an Huawei one (why?) and also insisting that there is no need to have an RCD between the solar and the rest of the wiring. The other contractor says there is no need to replace the inverter and that an RCD is needed. Tina will not budge until we agree to let the contractor back in to our premises to rectify the problems. All she keeps repeating is "we are evidence based - so we need the evidence". How much more evidence does she want than an admission, in writing of a complete c*ck up, blamed on his "staff" by the owner of the company. She is like a broken record and seems to be afraid to pass the problem to higher authority without concrete evidence, supplied by the customer. We, today, agreed to allow Spartek to attend and connect up the dangling string from the bank of solar on part of one roof. We have photos of the string dangling. It amazes me that NICEIC expect the customer to gather all the "evidence". How do they know that our evidence is true and accurate.? How do we know that Spartek are not just bodging up our system in as cheap and cheerful a way as they can. It beggars belief that they do not send someone out to take a look! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patp Posted March 29, 2023 Author Share Posted March 29, 2023 Over the course of this build we have had the run around from Anglian Water (took it to the Ombudsman - what a waste of time and effort) then Openreach who took a year to connect us to a pole about 50 metres away along an unobstructed driveway. Now here we are dealing with some quango that seems to be on the side of the contractor instead of the customer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteamyTea Posted March 29, 2023 Share Posted March 29, 2023 13 minutes ago, patp said: Now here we are dealing with some quango that seems to be on the side of the contractor instead of the customer. I worked, as a manufacturer, in the health and leisure industry 30 years ago. A few suppliers set up an organisation called the Fitness Industry Association. This was on the face of it to ensure high quality, but in reality it was to hamper some people in the industry from selling. Was totally crooked. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillsue Posted March 29, 2023 Share Posted March 29, 2023 47 minutes ago, patp said: All Tina at NIEIC does is ask me for "evidence" of the bad installation. The other contractor says there is no need to replace the inverter and that an RCD is needed. Send her a photo of the dangling cables, tell her they are connected to live solar panels and will likely have 100's of DC volts on them. AFAIK theres no absolute requirement for an RCD and whether you need one depends on the type of cable from the inverter and how its been installed. NIEIC will be able to advise if the regs required an RCD to be fitted 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Susie Posted March 29, 2023 Share Posted March 29, 2023 Sorry to hear you’re having trouble with NICEIC I thought since MCS escalated it to them there was a specific notifiable problem e.g. your dangerous wires and that you had MCS helping you. It’s probably a bit late now but if you still have unsafe work another registered NICEIC could give you an installation certificate and if they state it’s still ‘unsatisfactory’ then that should be enough proof for NICEIC to get involved more. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patp Posted March 30, 2023 Author Share Posted March 30, 2023 We have submitted evidence in writing, from another registered installer, of all the problems. He did not notice the unconnected string because, at the time, it was tucked beneath the roofing felt. It was only when the owner of Spartek came to the house, following our complaint, and inspected the loft that it was found. So he has admitted most of the problems and offered to put them right. My main worry, now, is to get a definitive answer about the inverter and the RCD. Then I need a decision about the shading. If the shading is bad practice then are they going to make the installer move it to another roof? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillsue Posted March 30, 2023 Share Posted March 30, 2023 12 hours ago, patp said: He did not notice the unconnected string because, at the time, it was tucked beneath the roofing felt. It was only when the owner of Spartek came to the house, following our complaint, and inspected the loft that it was found. So he has admitted most of the problems and offered to put them right. The unconnected cables are likely to be the only safety issue youve got and I cant see NICEIC being particularly interested in the other issues including 2 (presumibly) qualified sparks arguing over whether an RCD is needed. Suggest you send NICEIC the photos of the live unconnected cables 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patp Posted March 31, 2023 Author Share Posted March 31, 2023 They have the photos of the errant string now. I have been copied into them asking Spartek to address all my concerns. I think that they are, basically, just mediating between us and we can do that perfectly well ourselves! I wondered why Spartek were not that bothered about us bringing NICEIC in. They are showing themselves to be useless. A bit of the lunatics running the asylum perhaps. They take the contractors money and register them so that they get us consumers to feel safe and then side with the contractor when push comes to shove. Does anyone think it is worth going down the legal route? I think the part that is going to stall us is the problem with most of the panels being in deep shade. While Spartek can, quite cheaply, rectify the other problems, moving over thirty panels from one roof to another is not going to fill them with joy. I can join ?Which legal today for half the normal annual fee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillsue Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 Other than the panel location, they've offered to remedy all the issues so you'll likely get nowhere legally. They've offered compensation for lost generation which seems quite a reasonable thing to do. If I remember correctly they claim they put the panels where they are at your request/concern so that issue is likely to go nowhere legally. Check the small print with Which legal as Id be surprised if they would cover preexisting disputes. Speak to citizens advice for free and impartial advice on the likelyhood of legal action being an option Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patp Posted April 1, 2023 Author Share Posted April 1, 2023 ?Which Legal do cover existing disputes. The panels were not sited in shade at my request. I merely passed a comment that I thought solar panels were always sited on South facing roofs. We did not receive any advice on the matter or a written quotation from them which is when the shading should have been noted and a diagram of the shading given to us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillsue Posted April 1, 2023 Share Posted April 1, 2023 5 hours ago, patp said: ?Which Legal do cover existing disputes. The panels were not sited in shade at my request. I merely passed a comment that I thought solar panels were always sited on South facing roofs. We did not receive any advice on the matter or a written quotation from them which is when the shading should have been noted and a diagram of the shading given to us. Maybe Im wrong but I seem to recall you saying the installer claiming you influenced the panel location. If its his word vs yours that would seem a bit grey legally. If youre happy to pay for which membership but then be told youve got limited/no grounds for a claim, then go for it. I beleive citizens advice will give you similar guidance for free 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patp Posted April 2, 2023 Author Share Posted April 2, 2023 His version is that he told us. Yes we discussed it but at no point did he tell us how detrimental the shading would be. Why would we want to pay for something that is not going to work? We have been told that, as part of his "good practice" he should have given us a quotation package that included a diagram of how shading would affect the panels. The advisor that we called in has done one using a gadget and it shows unacceptable levels of shade. The installer took no such readings and has admitted that his staff did not give us a quotation package. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted April 2, 2023 Share Posted April 2, 2023 what is an "unacceptable" level of shade? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patp Posted April 2, 2023 Author Share Posted April 2, 2023 I am not sure of the figures but a meter is used which takes a light reading. It then is transposed to a graph. I will try to see if I can find it and post it here (assuming my computer skills are up to it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patp Posted April 2, 2023 Author Share Posted April 2, 2023 (edited) Shade report (1).pdf Hope this works. You should see the other engineers comments about what is and is not considered acceptable. We have a perfectly good West facing roof and an East facing roof. Then there is the, unshaded, South facing garage roof. Edited April 2, 2023 by patp clarity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dillsue Posted April 2, 2023 Share Posted April 2, 2023 I know it's not what you want to here but its his word against yours if he's claiming you were party to moving the panels onto a more shade roof. Your best asking Which or citizens advice for more informed guidance. As the installer has offered to remedy all the defects, other than the disputed panel location, seems to me your best bet is to let him fix everything and trade off the loss of generation compensation youve been offered against the labour to move the panels. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patp Posted April 3, 2023 Author Share Posted April 3, 2023 No it is not what I want to hear but, as you say, we must be practical. We are now thinking of selling up and moving so the disappointment of living with a substandard installation will be gone. So hard to take when you have put your heart and soul into something 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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