Tile trim around the bath - should it be siliconed after fitting and tiling?

[Oxbow16]

Hi all

 

We recently had a new bath installed.  It is surrounded by walls on three sides, and it turned out that one of the walls wasn't square leaving a larger gap.  So when it came to tiling, the tiler said it would be best to have a tile trim, the type you put into place before tiling and then tile onto.  The bath was siliconed before the tile trim, then the trim was added and then the tiles...

 

The plumber said he would come back to add more silicone as a final step.  But when he came back (he had other work to finish as well) he changed his mind and said the silicone wasn't needed.  I asked whether water would get under the trim but he said it wouldn't be a problem.  

 

Just wanted to check in with you guys whether you think he is right, or whether it needs sealing?  

 

Many thanks and hope you've all had a good Christmas.

 

Cheers

 

 

 

 

 

[Onoff]

Imho...

 

Tiles should come down to the bath.

 

Even if it meant bringing the wall where there's a gap out, with an extra layer of Aqua Panel etc.

 

Before that last tile, bath gets half filled with water to simulate a person in it. Clear CT1 around the bath wall joint. Let it set...like 36hrs. Drain the water. Tiles come down to the bath with a 1mm gap. Pull out the 1mm shims and more CT1 in the gap. Wipe off the excess with baby wipes. Let it set. 

 

Then a silicone of your choice that's relatively easily removed and renewed in the future. 

 

Good luck when the bath trim goes yellow and manky. The trim adds another (unnecessary) component. 

 

Tbh though not many "professionals" will want to spend that much time on the job.

[joe90]

I used to use that kind of trim when tiling around baths and it works well (if fitted properly with ct1 or similar underneath on bath to wall joint). Yes they can go yellow after many years but most people change theirs after that many years.

[Oxbow16]

Thanks for the replies.  So seems a score draw at the moment as to whether it's a good or bad job/choice of materials.

 

I know he didn't fill the bath when he siliconed, so that's not good.  But he did use a lot of silicone to fill the wall to bath gap before the tiler came, albeit with the bath empty.

 

I think I can handle the discolouration,  just about, though I'd obviously much rather not have it and if there were other ways to do the job I wished they'd have discussed them with me first.  I tend to question most things, but with this they seemed confident and so I was happy to take their word that it was the best solution. 

 

But want I want to be sure of is that the seal will be good and that it's water tight.  Either as it is now, or after further silicone is added if needed.

 

I'll post some more photos below. The first two show where the tiles and trim meet the wall at the end of the bath. That shows better how the tiles sit on the trim. and the type of trim profile that was used, which may give a better clue as to what it is. Photos 3 and 4 show the silicone from beneath the bath - at the head end (applied before the tiler came), and photos 5 and 6 show the same at the tap end.

 

Any further thoughts most welcomed and thanks for the help so far

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

 

[Oxbow16]

 

 

[paul evenden]

What I do (but its too late to help now) is set the bath up level and mark the top edge on the wall, then if the wall isn’t straight (and depending on the tiles at other times too)  I chop the plaster off to rebate the edge of the bath into the wall. Work out the tile spacing, take the bath out and fix a batten one tile higher than the top edge of the bath then tile the wall above the back of the bath (to save standing in the bath to tile it) then fit the bath sticking it to the wall with ct1 or similar (fill the bath while its going off) Take the batten off and put in the last course of tiles, grout, leaving the gap between tiles and bath clear, when the grout is dry, silicone the gap.

To silicone ,neatly fill the gap, spray it with glass cleaner and wipe it off with a wet finger (the glass cleaner stops the silicone sticking to the tiles and bath when you wipe the joint) 

If the walls are studwork or one solid and one studwork etc then silicone instead of grouting the vertical corner joint too as a grout line will crack. Proper tile shops (not diy sheds) will sell silicone to match their grouts.

paul

 

[Onoff]

8 minutes ago, paul evenden said:

To silicone ,neatly fill the gap, spray it with glass cleaner and wipe it off with a wet finger (the glass cleaner stops the silicone sticking to the tiles and bath when you wipe the joint) 

 

Fugi Cramer tool for me. Makes glass cleaner unnecessary. 

[paul evenden]

Never seen one

was taught the glass cleaner thing by an old boy twenty years ago and been doing it ever since, I’ll google that tool now !

[Onoff]

9 hours ago, paul evenden said:

Never seen one

was taught the glass cleaner thing by an old boy twenty years ago and been doing it ever since, I’ll google that tool now !

 

It's a big "thing" on here. Absolutely magic. Forget any pretenders. The rubber or whatever they're made off will take wet silicone of a tile cleanly. 

 

I've got this basic kit. Picked at random:

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cramer-Grouting-Silicone-Profiling-Applicator/dp/B07H8K5W8D/ref=asc_df_B07H8K5W8D/?

[Onoff]

@paul evenden have a look at this thread:

 

 

[Mr Punter]

You should also silicone the verticals on the tiles where the walls meet as they are a weak point.

[Oxbow16]

Happy new year everyone.

 

Appreciate all the detailed guides as to how it should be done properly, and only wish my plumber/tiler was of the same mindset!  The bath was definitely empty when they siliconed and later grouted.  We've only used the bath once so far and there are some cracked in the grout to trim line.  I'll put some pics below.  

 

Another point of interest, should there be batons or anything around the wall to give the bath extra support? There are four small plastic wall brackets that came with the bath. He used three of those. And of course the legs/feet. But that's it for support. Maybe that's enough?

 

RE: Fugi kit.  Cheers for pointing that out and for the link.  I've watched a few videos and it does look handy.  My only reservation is how well it will or won't work when the two surfaces don't form a right angle.  Usually bath lips are sloped inward to the bath.  Likewise where the back of sink meets the wall.  Would the kits work in these situations.  Most if not all of the videos show folk using the Fuji on an artifical demo set up (with two boards at a right angle), or in the wall to countertop join, which again is a right angle.

 

 

On 29/12/2021 at 09:25, Mr Punter said:

You should also silicone the verticals on the tiles where the walls meet as they are a weak point.

 

Thanks, I'll do that then as they haven't.  Thanks for pointing it out.  but just to check, is it ok to silicone over the grout?

 

Cheers all

 

 

 

 

Edited January 2, 2022 by Oxbow16

[Mr Punter]

42 minutes ago, Oxbow16 said:

is it ok to silicone over the grout?

 

Yes fine.The Fugi tool will give a nice clean 45 degree bead but it is worth using the black plastic bits in the kit for when you move over the grout lines between tiles.

[Onoff]

1 hour ago, Mr Punter said:

 

Yes fine.The Fugi tool will give a nice clean 45 degree bead but it is worth using the black plastic bits in the kit for when you move over the grout lines between tiles.

 

Like this:

 

 

 

[Oxbow16]

Hi all

 

I've been away at work and so haven't been able to do anything to the bath yet.  I have had time to read a bit more about it though...  The verdict I've reached through reading is that siliconing onto the grout wouldn't be a good.  Firstly it would be far better for the silicone to go INTO the gap that the grout is currently in.  It would make for a much better longer lasting seal.  Secondly, and maybe more importantly, the silicone is there to accommodate future movement whilst keeping things water tight.  Having both grout and silicone bridging a gap isn't good from the movement point of view.  

 

With that in mind I'm wondering whether I'll need to bite the bullet and remove the grout before applying the silicone.  Just to be clear, I'm referring to where the bottom tiles meet the trim, but also to the vertical sections where two walls meet; which have also only been grouted.  

 

Any thoughts?  

 

Thanks a million 

 

EDIT:  

 

I say this with hesitation, but I guess there is another more drastic option...  Remove the bottom row of tiles, and the plastic trim, and half start again.  Or totally start again - but not sure how easy removing the copious amounts of silicone between bath and wall would be. 

 

Obviously I'd rather avoid doing any of that, so if it's going too far then great.  But if it needs that level of re-doing to be a decent watertight job, then I might as well face up to it now!

 

Edited January 7, 2022 by Oxbow16

[Oxbow16]

Don't mean to be a pain, but if anyone has any further thoughts on any of this, that would be a massive help. I'm going to need to discuss all this with the plumber/tiler next week and the more I understand what has been done vs what should have been done, the better (as well as what needs to be done to put it right!). Cheers.

Edited January 9, 2022 by Oxbow16

[Onoff]

To get rid of the visible crack I would:

 

Dig out the grout.

 

Half fill the bath.

 

Redo with white C-Tec BT1 and tool it flush with the tile. 

 

https://www.toolstation.com/bt1-tribrid-ultimate-bathroom-sealant-adhesive/p74523?

 

That's BT1 not CT1.

 

Let it set.

 

 

 

 

[Oxbow16]

Thanks @Onoff - appreciate the run through. 

 

Unfortunately, I have since found out the exact trim that was used:  

 

https://www.tilerite.co.uk/bath-trims/overtile-trim/bbs621/

 

It's an overtile trim ***facepalm*** And it says "WARNING - avoid silicone contact with trim flex" ***double facepalm*** So really, the decision to use it is going from bad to worse.   Perhaps using at all was a bad decision.  But if it had to be used, why he didn't use the undertile version I've no idea.  Probably because it was a few quid more!  

 

The other thing I've realised is that where the gap between wall and bath is widest, here:  

 

 

Should water get under the trim lip, I think it will actually end up in a spot that is lower than the bath edge (where I've marked red), and so won't work it's way out so well.  

 

Grrrr!