Gordo Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 (edited) 7 minutes ago, bassanclan said: https://www.toolstation.com/ybs-24m-easi-close-eps-white-cavity-closer/p48227 Nasty cavity closers. They need a suitable timber or steel frame or plasterboard to actually provide the FR or use a FR closer. Edited October 31, 2021 by Gordo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordo Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 (edited) 28 minutes ago, bassanclan said: https://www.toolstation.com/ybs-24m-easi-close-eps-white-cavity-closer/p48227 Maybe @Gordo is talking about NI building regulations which I am not familiar with Good point. AD B only applies to England. TB E applies to N Ireland. Perhaps N Ireland standard is higher or more conservative should I say. Although this debate rages in N Ireland where different councils interpret this very point differently. Poor builders don’t know if they are coming or going. Personally my view with traditional cavity walls is that as long as the cavity is sealed a fire would be starved of oxygen and is a low risk. But I don’t like to rely on my opinion as I could be missing something. Edited October 31, 2021 by Gordo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterW Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 1 hour ago, Gordo said: They need a suitable timber or steel frame or plasterboard to actually provide the FR or use a FR closer. Agree - issue is that a lot of people do not understand how fire resistance is built up and what the classifications actually mean. You only need to look at the arguments that happen with stove surrounds and whether plasterboard is acceptable as a medium close to a stove, but what is also not understood widely is the fixing media is also part of the make up of the fire resistance. If you look at some of the new foam adhesives, they are not suitable for fire boards, not because they won’t bond them but because the foam will fail at a lower temperature than the rated standard for the board with skim. 1 hour ago, Gordo said: Personally my view with traditional cavity walls is that as long as the cavity is sealed a fire would be starved of oxygen and is a low risk. Speaking to a retired fire officer about this a while ago and he always said that if you had a fire in a cavity wall, you had bigger issues elsewhere as there should never be a source of ignition in that space ..! Long term I think that there is a wholesale rework needed of the regs - sadly it focused on what’s the hot topic (pardon the pun..!) and climate and energy is todays focus… who knows, in 5 years time when fires in timber framed buildings have increased due to things such as you highlight such as fire barriers behind rain screens and between compartments, then we may see a focus on saving lives not just todays pet subjects … Ireland seemed to have got this right a few years ago, with the zero carbon policies, and Wales seems to have gone a similar direction with sprinkler or mist systems (not convinced on this yet) but whilst the lobbying system in England allows the big house builders a loud voice that increasing standards will cost the purchaser - not that their profits couldn’t stand a hit - then the regulations will always be watered down to a minimum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gordo Posted October 31, 2021 Share Posted October 31, 2021 (edited) 38 minutes ago, PeterW said: Agree - issue is that a lot of people do not understand how fire resistance is built up and what the classifications actually mean. You only need to look at the arguments that happen with stove surrounds and whether plasterboard is acceptable as a medium close to a stove, but what is also not understood widely is the fixing media is also part of the make up of the fire resistance. If you look at some of the new foam adhesives, they are not suitable for fire boards, not because they won’t bond them but because the foam will fail at a lower temperature than the rated standard for the board with skim. Speaking to a retired fire officer about this a while ago and he always said that if you had a fire in a cavity wall, you had bigger issues elsewhere as there should never be a source of ignition in that space ..! Long term I think that there is a wholesale rework needed of the regs - sadly it focused on what’s the hot topic (pardon the pun..!) and climate and energy is todays focus… who knows, in 5 years time when fires in timber framed buildings have increased due to things such as you highlight such as fire barriers behind rain screens and between compartments, then we may see a focus on saving lives not just todays pet subjects … Ireland seemed to have got this right a few years ago, with the zero carbon policies, and Wales seems to have gone a similar direction with sprinkler or mist systems (not convinced on this yet) but whilst the lobbying system in England allows the big house builders a loud voice that increasing standards will cost the purchaser - not that their profits couldn’t stand a hit - then the regulations will always be watered down to a minimum. I am aware of two house fires where the fire raged through the cavity walls with pumped EPS bead insulation and poor/no cavity barriers at tops of walls. One was only partially built in a housing development at time of fire. I was surprised TBH of the resulting damage. Meter cupboard built into cavity walls is a concern as this I understand started one of the fires. I’m not familiar with England zero carbon policies but can confirm that there is no appetite to enforce this in N Ireland in current economic climate. Seems to have been a climb down on it. Wales sprinklers is contentious. Hugh capital costs to industry but lives will definitely be saved. Guess it all comes down to devolved governments value placed on life when balancing the cost to benefit when writing regulations. Is one life worth £10 million extra costs to population? Speaking to a fire expert (involved in advising our government in regs) regarding the fire strategy in N Ireland dwellings. I was astounded to realise that our strategy is that the person in the bedroom where a fire starts is assumed to die. The strategy is to get everyone else out, hence we dictate FAs only in circulation areas, Living room and Kitchen. I believe England may not require FAs in Kitchen and Living (not sure). I always advise people of this fact and suggest the consider FAs throughout especially bedrooms. I would pay extra for my families safety. Edited October 31, 2021 by Gordo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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