Site Purchase Advice - Self Build Newbie

[Ballyboy50]

Hi everyone! What a great site to begin with. I've learned so much so far. We are fairly new to self building and have only just viewed a site with OPP for a 1.5 storey home in North West Northern Ireland (265sqM), which is currently going through planning for FPP. Unlike many self builders in Northern Ireland, we will be purchasing the land and so I want to have all our ducks lined up before we put an offer in. Subject to some internal tweaking of the layout, we feel the current plans would work for us. The land sits on an existing farm shed which will need to be demolished but at least there is a water tap onsite and it looks like a NIE pole on the land so I expect connection costs to be tolerable.  Any advice from those who have went through this process. Do we make an offer based on the existing OPP or wait for FPP to actualize and then potentially risk losing the land to someone else. There have been a number of objections to the planning application, the majority of which are not material considerations. Anyway I would really appreciate any advice or steer from you all. I hope to return the favour if and when we start building! 

[ProDave]

Contamination of the land from the former use is one obvious thing to check.

 

The water tap does not mean it has it's own supply, that could just be a long pipe from the farmhouse.  Get a quote for a proper water supply.

 

Likewise electricity, there may not be any spare capacity.

 

And probably the biggest is drainage.  Is mains drainage available?  If not is there sufficient land capable of supporting a treatment plant and the soakaway needed for it.

[saveasteading]

11 minutes ago, Ballyboy50 said:

an offer based on the existing OPP

This is normal enough and is likely to be acceptable to the vendor. Your lawyer must advise though, not us.

The only people who might not be cautious on this would soon be advised by their lawyers.

 

ProDave's points must be examined urgently too, but can be in parallel with the legals and planning. Some of these have high potential costs and others can be deal breakers.

 

My recent experience has been that vendors underplay the problems, and end up not selling. Then they continue to underplay these issues in the hope of a mug turning up.

Your lawyer can ask these questions if the agent isn't being forthcoming, but you must check them out yourself

 

7 minutes ago, ProDave said:

1. Contamination of the land from the former use is one obvious thing to check.

 

2. The water tap does not mean it has it's own supply, that could just be a long pipe from the farmhouse.  Get a quote for a proper water supply.

 

3. Likewise electricity, there may not be any spare capacity.

 

4. And probably the biggest is drainage.  Is mains drainage available?  If not is there sufficient land capable of supporting a treatment plant and the soakaway needed for it

 

 

To concentrate your mind:

 

1. You cannot build housing on badly contaminated land. (oil , asbestos, chemicals. Site cleaning is not a commercial option. ..deal breaker,....survey needed at a cost.

2. Cost between zero and many thousands depending on availability. You should not be dependent on the neighbour, but ask for permission to use it until own supply is in.

3. Is there power already? Allow £2k to take it back to  site supply then later reconnect. If not then could be £5k to £20k.

4. If mains available (downhill!) then a drain run costing some thousands. If not then a minimum of £4k for pipes and treatment, rising a lot if the land doesn't  suit. In worst case there is a small waterlogged site and it is impossible without storing and removal ....Thousands per annum.

 

Get asking these questions right away. When they don't answer, (claiming not to know) they are probably concealing something. If they do answer, it might be true but check it out.

You can also ask if there have been previous offers, now withdrawn and why?

 

But let's hope all is good and none of these are problems...but there will still be costs. As an absolute minimum :    1-4 above will cost minimum zero + £500 + £2,000 + £3,000 I would guess. Plus any consultants you need to check these out.

 

I have to say our Scottish lawyer was great and did not charge for these questions and issues on a site that fell through (for just these sort of reasons). She said this happens all the time, and it would be better for sellers to do these researches themselves.

 

[Ballyboy50]

46 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Contamination of the land from the former use is one obvious thing to check.

 

The water tap does not mean it has it's own supply, that could just be a long pipe from the farmhouse.  Get a quote for a proper water supply.

 

Likewise electricity, there may not be any spare capacity.

 

And probably the biggest is drainage.  Is mains drainage available?  If not is there sufficient land capable of supporting a treatment plant and the soakaway needed for it.

Many thanks for the first response. 

The shed does not form part of an existing farm but simply appears to have been a building for cows in the winter. There are remnants of fence wiring and other items in surrounding area so I will investigate further. I I have confirmed during my site visit that the tap in the picture actually has running water although it may not be suitable for domestic usage. Regarding the electric, you can see a NIE pole but again I take your thoughts on this as something to consider. Drainage is always a big issue and although a septic tank has been indicated on the plans, I understand this means nothing unless, as you correctly state, you have no land in which to drain to, even if a sewage treatment plant is installed. 

[Conor]

If you need advice re contaminated land, I highly recommend Colin Cusack @ AES   Bangor. I think his survey, report and a handful of probes for VOCs was about £500. Asbestos report was about the same.

[Ballyboy50]

25 minutes ago, saveasteading said:

This is normal enough and is likely to be acceptable to the vendor. Your lawyer must advise though, not us.

The only people who might not be cautious on this would soon be advised by their lawyers.

 

ProDave's points must be examined urgently too, but can be in parallel with the legals and planning. Some of these have high potential costs and others can be deal breakers.

 

My recent experience has been that vendors underplay the problems, and end up not selling. Then they continue to underplay these issues in the hope of a mug turning up.

Your lawyer can ask these questions if the agent isn't being forthcoming, but you must check them out yourself

 

 

 

To concentrate your mind:

 

1. You cannot build housing on badly contaminated land. (oil , asbestos, chemicals. Site cleaning is not a commercial option. ..deal breaker,....survey needed at a cost.

2. Cost between zero and many thousands depending on availability. You should not be dependent on the neighbour, but ask for permission to use it until own supply is in.

3. Is there power already? Allow £2k to take it back to  site supply then later reconnect. If not then could be £5k to £20k.

4. If mains available (downhill!) then a drain run costing some thousands. If not then a minimum of £4k for pipes and treatment, rising a lot if the land doesn't  suit. In worst case there is a small waterlogged site and it is impossible without storing and removal ....Thousands per annum.

 

Get asking these questions right away. When they don't answer, (claiming not to know) they are probably concealing something. If they do answer, it might be true but check it out.

You can also ask if there have been previous offers, now withdrawn and why?

 

But let's hope all is good and none of these are problems...but there will still be costs. As an absolute minimum :    1-4 above will cost minimum zero + £500 + £2,000 + £3,000 I would guess. Plus any consultants you need to check these out.

 

I have to say our Scottish lawyer was great and did not charge for these questions and issues on a site that fell through (for just these sort of reasons). She said this happens all the time, and it would be better for sellers to do these researches themselves.

 

Many thanks for your full and considered answer. I will be contacting the estate agent again shortly with the hope that he can provide us with some assurances to our answers but I won't hold my breath! The idea of spending money doing surveys before even making an offer is difficult for many to appreciate but it is a necessary evil! Cheers.

[Ballyboy50]

6 minutes ago, Conor said:

If you need advice re contaminated land, I highly recommend Colin Cusack @ AES   Bangor. I think his survey, report and a handful of probes for VOCs was about £500. Asbestos report was about the same.

Thanks Conor. His name rings a bell with me. I may have come across him through my job. Cheers. Dermot

[saveasteading]

3 minutes ago, Ballyboy50 said:

idea of spending money doing surveys before even making an offer is difficult for many to appreciate but it is a necessary evil!

Not necessarily at this early stage.  Your lawyer knows what to ask and can make it conditional, and you can ask in principle to the agent if that will be acceptable

How to judge the poss costs to you though, and allow in your offer is another matter. I know about these things and still get it wrong. Best estimate and a contingency.

 

if you have the patience, you will eventually find someone at the water and electric companies who will help with the basics. formal enquiries don't cost a lot.

 

Are there any important constraints in the OPP?

[saveasteading]

Don't tell us where it is, as these discussions come up in google searches. But can you indicate by words or sketch what size the site is and the topography?

[Conor]

24 minutes ago, Ballyboy50 said:

Thanks Conor. His name rings a bell with me. I may have come across him through my job. Cheers. Dermot

That's how I got hold of him, he worked on some of our contaminated sites projects.

[Ballyboy50]

1 hour ago, saveasteading said:

Not necessarily at this early stage.  Your lawyer knows what to ask and can make it conditional, and you can ask in principle to the agent if that will be acceptable

How to judge the poss costs to you though, and allow in your offer is another matter. I know about these things and still get it wrong. Best estimate and a contingency.

 

if you have the patience, you will eventually find someone at the water and electric companies who will help with the basics. formal enquiries don't cost a lot.

 

Are there any important constraints in the OPP?

No important constraints for the OPP. All standard conditions.

[Ballyboy50]

1 hour ago, saveasteading said:

Don't tell us where it is, as these discussions come up in google searches. But can you indicate by words or sketch what size the site is and the topography?

0.3 acres. It adjoins another 0.3 acre site with identical plans for similar property. Slight slope on land from shed towards small marsh area which is outside boundary. Small C-Class road snakes around the land, between the shed and house in picture. The site entrance will be located west of the tree and not the current entrance; a road service stipulation. 

[ProDave]

Drainage will be key.  If no mains, 0.3 acre is probably too small to fit a house, treatment plant and soakaway. Who owns the field sloping down to the marsh?  That might prove useful for drainage. If owned by the vendor seek a wayleave or similar allowing you to install a soakaway under it (you don't have to own it to do that)

 

But if that is the proposed option you would need a percolation test done so it might be a plan to seek that now.

[saveasteading]

I see houses.

The easy research is by speaking to the neighbours and asking where their water/elec comes from and where the drains go.

if they aren't available or don't know. then walk up and down the road looking for iron or concrete covers for these services, and also cables flying in from elec and telephone.

 

the adjacent filed is worth perhaps £10k an acre so logically is not expensive to buy a bit, and solve the drainage problem. But farmers don't like to part with land. If the field owner is the vendor then a small area might ease the sale, esp if explained that this is the only solution and anyone would want the same.

Or wayleave as above mentioned.

Soakaways must be 5m from a building and from a boundary, which sounds tight but might just work. If the field owner agrees formally then it can go nearer.

That is where all the rain is going already, down the slope to the puddle.

4 hours ago, ProDave said:

you would need a percolation test done so it might be a plan to seek that now

 This is one of the easier tests. With figures you could press the point of needing land for soakaways or even a pond, which is often the best solution.

For a quick test i wouldn't do the 2m hole first, but just dig the little hole below topsoil. It will be a decent indicator.