First quote

[CotswoldDoItUpper]

Does this seem reasonable? Never heard of Nibe either, any experience with them?

[IanR]

Nibe are a very good heat pump manufacturer, and their prices tend to be a little higher than the direct competition.

 

I have the 12kW F2040, so not sure how much more the 16kW is. (I remember it was an extra £400 ish from the 8kW -> 12kW). To my 2017 pricing (which shouldn't have gone up much for ASHPs) I'd say you're quote is around £2K - £2.5K more than I was charged. 

Edited to add:
That's a small UVC for ASHP size. Is your space heating requirement driving the size rather than DHW requirement?

Edited September 13, 2021 by IanR

[LA3222]

I paid 6k for a 300l preplumbed UVC and an 8.5kw ASHP.  Looks like you are paying 9k for the RHI.

 

Will you really get £1k back per year, whilst also saving 60% on fuel costs? Smells like bullshit to me.

 

You are replacing an LPG setup, so I'm guessing not a new build? What is the fabric of the house like? If its like a drafty sieve then your ASHP will be running all the time and you definitely won't be saving any dough,  e lucky if you don't find yourself with higher energy costs.

 

To my mind ASHP are good, but only in the right setting. We'll insulated, air tight home, preferably with Solar PV. Of you don't have those I would reconsider.

[SimonD]

Nibe is a leading Swedish manufacturer of heat pumps so no worries there. However, I would check your supplier as I don't think they have treated your installation correctly for VAT purposes as they've quoted you a flat 20% whereas I believe it should be apportioned between materials and labour with different VAT rates. Not a good start for a potential contractor as Nibe actually provides guidance for this on its very own website.

 

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/vat-changes-to-the-reduced-rate-for-energy-saving-materials-2019/vat-changes-to-the-reduced-rate-for-energy-saving-materials-2019

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/vat-on-energy-saving-materials-and-heating-equipment-notice-7086#para2-9

 

Also, has the company provided you with their own heat loss calcs? That would be useful so you can verify the claimed reduction in heating costs and RHI and of course the sizing of the heat pump.

 

At least it'll be neat and tidy they say...

[SimonD]

I should probably also add that if the quote doesn’t exceed the 60% vat rule the whole supply should be 5 % vat. 

[CotswoldDoItUpper]

@IanR our space heating is 34654 kWh per year and our hot water requirements are 2337 kWh per year.  EPC from about 6 months ago when we bought was 19G. I think we will was a bigger cylinder anyway, but this quote was a starting point! 
 

I do think it is maybe a bit on the £££ side, but I’ll have to see what other quotes say.

@LA3222 given our EPC the Gov website says we should expect £1300/year in RHI payments. 60% reduction in bills I think is a little strong, but I’d be happy with 40%!
 

LPG is v expensive fabric is being improved, we’re adding insulation and foil tape everywhere we can to keep it as efficient whilst allowing a 200+ year old building breathe. It’s a challenge, but we’ll get there!

 

@SimonD ooo good spot thanks! What’s the 60% vat rule? 
 

and no, I don’t think they have done their own heat loss calcs. We have an EPC from the purchase and I pointed out where it was incorrect but no more then that. To be fair, the guy came to quote for a different job (bathrooms) and I asked him to quote for an ASHP too seeing as he was here!!

 

[IanR]

1 hour ago, CotswoldDoItUpper said:

@IanR our space heating is 34654 kWh per year and our hot water requirements are 2337 kWh per year.  EPC from about 6 months ago when we bought was 19G. I think we will was a bigger cylinder anyway, but this quote was a starting point! 

With 16kW, you'll have no issue with heat-up time on the cylinder, so go larger if you can fit it in. The larger it is the lower you can drop the temperature and the more efficient the ASHP will run.

 

You can work out your own RHI payments:

https://renewable-heat-calculator.service.gov.uk/StartCalculation.aspx

 

I've plugged your figures in below and have guessed the improvement expected from loft and wall insulation. When you do it, remember to change the SCOP from the default 2.6. It makes a big difference. I think the F2040-16 has a SCOP of 4.48

 

Edited to add: 4.4 SCOP relies on an emitter size that allows a 35°C Flow temp.

 

Edited September 13, 2021 by IanR

[SimonD]

1 hour ago, CotswoldDoItUpper said:

@SimonD ooo good spot thanks! What’s the 60% vat rule? 
 

and no, I don’t think they have done their own heat loss calcs. We have an EPC from the purchase and I pointed out where it was incorrect but no more then that. To be fair, the guy came to quote for a different job (bathrooms) and I asked him to quote for an ASHP too seeing as he was here!

 

The 60% rule came in a couple of years ago. If a supplier is supplying and fitting a qualifying energy savings measure, like a heat pump, and lets say charges a total of £10,000 ex vat. If the supplier has to pay more than 60% of that to buy the products and materials then the vat charged needs to be apportioned between materials and labour. Materials gets charged at 20% and the labour at 5%. If the total materials is below 60% of the total charged, then the supplier can charge at the lower threshold of 5%.

 

This is warning bell no 1 with your quote.

 

If he hasn't done his own heat loss calcs and merely relied on an incorrect epc, that's warning no. 2.

 

He really needs to do this himself and also carefully design the heating system for a heat pump. Just chucking in a heat pump is unlikely to yield promising results. It looks like your existing radiators are being kept in the new system? That is not a good sign either.

 

 

[CotswoldDoItUpper]

Another ‘quote’… thus one seems much better thought about, though roughly the same price inc vat.