Anchor bolts and packers

[Pocster]

1 hour ago, Onoff said:

 

Doesn't the above "hook" over the concrete lip at the top? Are there any holes so you can fix in place?

 

The stringer tops then connect to those slots don't they?

 

What's the finish? If powder coat over plain steel without the steel being zinc flame sprayed or galvanised then that's not the best finish for longevity.

 

 

Powder coated I think 

it does have fixing holes . Fixing that lip isn’t an issue . Be nice to have some lips for the stringer to sit on whilst it’s fixed . As it stands the stringer has to be supported at the high end while it’s bolted to the wall lip . 

[Pocster]

The fixings I’ve ordered look stainless steel . But when I drill the concrete with the stringer in situ bound to catch the coating around the hole . If I do that and some powder coating comes off - what should I repair the chips with ?

[Onoff]

If your fixings are stainless they'll likely say "A2" on them or the packet. You can tell if they're stainless pretty well by putting a magnet on them. If it sticks they're not stainless.

 

Is it painted to a particular RAL number?

 

Best start is to get some polyester powder coat touch up pens or better a pot of touch up paint from whoever did the PPC. The use the same paint powder in a solvent so it matches exactly. You can get it from 3rd parties online but they expect you to have some powder. Some of course will sell you the powder. The touch up paint pots have a little brush in like for solvent weld.

 

If you just want to get on and do it then drill your hole, small brush, zinc rich primer and let it dry for a bit. If you go brush then any anti corrosion primer ideally with a zinc base. I see TS do a Rustin's one. At work we'd use Galvafroid generally on steelwork or Zinga sometimes. 

 

I say brush rather than a spray but I use the Pro-Cote Cold Galv Spray from

Toolstation a lot for my various mad projects and garden repairs (at work too tbh). If you feel you can spray in the holes accurate enough without overspray (or mask up). I'd still probably spray. For this I might even splash out in some Zinc 182 spray (Halfords do it). It's good stuff.

 

Let it dry in the hole. The Pro-Cote stuff dries real quick btw. Slap some grease in there, nut it up with a smear of anti seize on the threads. Go round later and wipe any excess off if it annoys you. 

 

For ongoing protection around the fixings a squirt of ACF-50.

 

Periodically check the torque too.

 

 

[Onoff]

Are the fixings they supplied with the stairs stainless steel? On the head of the bolt it'll be be stamped say "A2-70", best is "A4-80". If mild steel then I would hope they'll be stamped "8.8". Similarly I'd expect galvanised fixings rather than bright zinc plated for this.

[Pocster]

16 minutes ago, Onoff said:

Are the fixings they supplied with the stairs stainless steel? On the head of the bolt it'll be be stamped say "A2-70", best is "A4-80". If mild steel then I would hope they'll be stamped "8.8". Similarly I'd expect galvanised fixings rather than bright zinc plated for this.

Here’s the wall fixing bolts I’ve ordered .

 

I’ll check the supplied bolts when on site 

[markc]

I would say they are BZP (zinc plated) decent drill, good clean hole and they will be fine

[Onoff]

I think they're w@nk. For the few quid it'll cost I'd go stainless.

 

https://www.orbitalfasteners.co.uk/products/m12x7075-sleeve-anchor-stst

 

Then what do I know having worked on all forms of holding down units for man riding equipment, staircases and ladders etc for 40 years? ?

 

[Pocster]

49 minutes ago, Onoff said:

Are the fixings they supplied with the stairs stainless steel? On the head of the bolt it'll be be stamped say "A2-70", best is "A4-80". If mild steel then I would hope they'll be stamped "8.8". Similarly I'd expect galvanised fixings rather than bright zinc plated for this.

Supplied bolts are indeed stamped 8.8

[Pocster]

10 minutes ago, Onoff said:

I think they're w@nk. For the few quid it'll cost I'd go stainless.

 

https://www.orbitalfasteners.co.uk/products/m12x7075-sleeve-anchor-stst

 

Then what do I know having worked on all forms of holding down units for man riding equipment, staircases and ladders etc for 40 years? ?

 

Ok , ok ffs ! , I’ll order those . But I’ll see if they do longer ones ….

[Pocster]

1 hour ago, Onoff said:

it painted to a particular RAL number?

Missed this . No RAL - just black 

[saveasteading]

2 hours ago, Onoff said:

 

If you drill anything powder coated you'll break the skin and water will get underneath

The holes will be covered by the washer and bolts so the cut edge can be painted or smeared to protect it.

 

This stair will clang when used. Does that matter?

[Pocster]

Just now, saveasteading said:

The holes will be covered by the washer and bolts so the cut edge can be painted or smeared to protect it.

 

This stair will clang when used. Does that matter?

Clang ? The metal steps do have tread covers . 

[Onoff]

Just now, saveasteading said:

This stair will clang when used. Does that matter?

 

It's deliberate so he can listen for escapees.

[saveasteading]

Just now, pocster said:

The metal steps do have tread covers .

May be ok then. Let us know!

[Onoff]

Does one stringer sit flat against the wall or is is spaced off in any way?

[Pocster]

3 minutes ago, Onoff said:

Does one stringer sit flat against the wall or is is spaced off in any way?

Appears to bolt direct to the wall afaik 

[Pocster]

5 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

It's deliberate so he can listen for escapees.

Absolutely. Tbh clang or not isn’t an issue .

[markc]

6 minutes ago, pocster said:

Absolutely. Tbh clang or not isn’t an issue .

Haha, reminds me of a job a good few years ago, stainless steel conservatory for lord and lady Sainsbury … bloody nightmare job, part of snagging was that it made a big noise and shook when you slammed the sliding door open! .. we put a couple of rubber blocks in so the door bounced back …still shook the frame (approx 4 tons of it).

[Onoff]

Fyi these are all galvanised fixings a few years old. The one on the left stamped 4.6 a lower tensile grade that the 8.8 on the right. Treat any unstamped bolt as the lowest grade unless proven otherwise. You can see some have a little rust on them. Periodic spannering may damage the galv coating on the head. Similarly you can see rust where a couple passed through other steel plates and moisture would have lodged.

 

 

These are bright zinc plated bolts, much shinier, not as good as galv:

 

 

You can also get a "yellow zinc" finish. Slightly better than bright zinc plated...but still w@nk for this! ?

 

 

 

[Onoff]

10 minutes ago, markc said:

Haha, reminds me of a job a good few years ago, stainless steel conservatory for lord and lady Sainsbury … bloody nightmare job, part of snagging was that it made a big noise and shook when you slammed the sliding door open! .. we put a couple of rubber blocks in so the door bounced back …still shook the frame (approx 4 tons of it).

 

I'm sad that I look at railway stations and car park barriers, handrails etc. A nice stainless feature fixed with mild steel studs, leaching rust everywhere!

[Onoff]

Talking ball park then to achieve similar tensile strength to a mild steel 8.8 you want to aim for A2-80 or A4-80 if using stainless. The 80 bring a higher strength that 70. 

 

A2 and A4 refers to the corrosion resistance properties. A4 basically the best, for marine and harsh chemical environments.

 

Those fasteners I linked are 316 which is aka A4 so top flight corrosion resistance. They'll be good. 

[markc]

2 minutes ago, Onoff said:

 

I'm sad that I look at railway stations and car park barriers, handrails etc. A nice stainless feature fixed with mild steel studs, leaching rust everywhere!

We do a lot of railway stuff and they don’t like stainless fixings.

The platform furniture that is all polished stainless and fixed with bzp or even self colour threaded rods is madness and looks terrible.

 

[Onoff]

Just now, markc said:

We do a lot of railway stuff and they don’t like stainless fixings.

The platform furniture that is all polished stainless and fixed with bzp or even self colour threaded rods is madness and looks terrible.

 

 

Probably don't want to pay for Gr80 stainless fixings so they're akin to 8.8 for tensile strength! Shareholders etc.

[Pocster]

On 14/09/2021 at 10:48, Onoff said:

I think they're w@nk. For the few quid it'll cost I'd go stainless.

 

https://www.orbitalfasteners.co.uk/products/m12x7075-sleeve-anchor-stst

 

Then what do I know having worked on all forms of holding down units for man riding equipment, staircases and ladders etc for 40 years? ?

 

Don't seem to do them any longer. I would prefer a deeper fixing.... any thing else you recommend?

 

Just worried it's only 70mm. Remember 2 top fixings have to go through the wall lip steel then the stringer steel ( that's at least 20mm just there ).

100mm I would be happy.

Edited September 15, 2021 by pocster

[Pocster]

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/masonry-plugs-anchors-fixings/6221988/

 

????? for example

 

or

 

https://www.ffx.co.uk/product/Get/Spit-055345-3439510553459-Fix-Z-Through-Bolt-Anchor-Stainless-Steel-A4-100Mm-X-25?gclid=Cj0KCQjws4aKBhDPARIsAIWH0JX3BNFpcYhnYZktHBNgznaXMXYPXDFYxW9IhTzNeEGFRfbuRyr48BoaAsP2EALw_wcB#FPD

 

??

Edited September 15, 2021 by pocster