50mm Ceiling void

[MortarThePoint]

On 31/08/2021 at 22:42, PeterW said:

So who’s done the BRegs drawings as some of this such as the detail on the ceilings for fire protection etc needs to be properly detailed. 

 

Architect has included enough details. He's specified 150mm void with Casoline MF. I don't want or need such a large void.

Edited September 2, 2021 by MortarThePoint

[MortarThePoint]

@Conor to understand your install a bit more I was hoping you don't mind me asking the following 

1. Do you know what fixing they have used to attach the GL2 brackets to the underside of HCF? If not, a close up photo would be cool.
2. Did they put up the MF for partitions first?
3. They haven't used GL8 perimeter along the ICF which I guess is to do with the ICF. Do you know their plan at the edges?
4. What plasterboard are you going to use under this?

Thanks

Edited September 2, 2021 by MortarThePoint

[Conor]

2 hours ago, MortarThePoint said:

@Conor to understand your install a bit more I was hoping you don't mind me asking the following 

1. Do you know what fixing they have used to attach the GL2 brackets to the underside of HCF? If not, a close up photo would be cool.
2. Did they put up the MF for partitions first?
3. They haven't used GL8 perimeter along the ICF which I guess is to do with the ICF. Do you know their plan at the edges?
4. What plasterboard are you going to use under this?

Thanks

1. 6mm x 35mm expanding metal fixing pins. don't know the name

2. no, they did all the ceilings first, but ended ceilings where they knew there was a partition and left them short

3. not needed as the top hats are just a few mm from the perimeter.

4. in this section, pink fireboard due to the steels and timber. rest of the house is 12.5mm board.

 

Most of the ceilings are like this with full service void.

 

Edited September 2, 2021 by Conor

[MortarThePoint]

Cool, thanks. Looks tidy and good large service openings in the studs. The Tradeline studs look to have pretty small service openings. Are they standard 92mm C-studs?

 

10 minutes ago, Conor said:

6mm x 35mm expanding metal fixing pins. don't know the name

 

Hammer in similar to these:

https://www.builderdepot.co.uk/spit-udz-6mm-x-35mm-fire-resistant-hammer-in-fixing-pack-of-100

[Conor]

70mm studs.

 

Yes, those are the fixings. They used a nailgun for the studs.

[MortarThePoint]

1 minute ago, Conor said:

70mm studs.

 

Yes, those are the fixings. They used a nailgun for the studs.

 

The MF looks great. I've never seen it in the flesh so it's great to see. I see they have included the deflection heads by using the deeper track which is good. Crazy how much more expensive the deeper track is than the standard track. (about 3x).

[MortarThePoint]

On 31/08/2021 at 20:39, MortarThePoint said:

In parts (Speed Pro not BG):

• GL1: 1.67m/m2, £1.14/m, £1.90/m2 https://www.builderdepot.co.uk/metal-lining-channel-3600mm-gl1
• GL2:  1.4/m2, 12p each, 16p/m2  https://www.builderdepot.co.uk/195mm-gypframe-gypliner-brackets-gl2-box-of-100
• GL3: 0.3/m, 0.5/m2, 12p each, 6p/m2 https://www.builderdepot.co.uk/gypframe-gypliner-channel-connectors-gl3-box-of-50
• GL8: £0.83/m https://www.builderdepot.co.uk/metal-track-3000mm-gl8

An arbitrary 4m*4m room would cost 16m2*(£1.90/m2 + £0.16/m2 + £0.06/m2) + 16m*(£0.83/m) = £47.2 or about £3/m2 plus screws. BG may be more expensive as likely a better brand (?).

 

On 31/08/2021 at 22:41, PeterW said:

Speed Pro and Gypliner are the same thing, and at trade price - those builder depot prices are a bit pricy - it’s as cheap as timber but faster to install. 

 

I've had some prices on TradeLine and it is much cheaper:

• GL1: TradeLine 1.67m/m2 £0.83/m, £1.38/m2
• GL2: A Hough 12.5p each which is similar to Builder Depot
• GL3: A Hough 18p each which isn't better than Builder Depot
• GL8: TradeLine 75p/m

That makes the arbitrary 4m x 4m room 16m2*(£1.38/m2 + £0.18/m2 + £0.09/m2) + 16m*(£0.75/m) = £38.40 or about £2.40/m2 plus screws.

[MortarThePoint]

50 minutes ago, MortarThePoint said:

I've had some prices on TradeLine and it is much cheaper:

• GL1: TradeLine 1.67m/m2 £0.83/m, £1.38/m2
• GL2: A Hough 12.5p each which is similar to Builder Depot
• GL3: A Hough 18p each which isn't better than Builder Depot
• GL8: TradeLine 75p/m

That makes the arbitrary 4m x 4m room 16m2*(£1.38/m2 + £0.18/m2 + £0.09/m2) + 16m*(£0.75/m) = £38.40 or about £2.40/m2 plus screws.

 

Hmm, looks like TradeLine specify 400mm centres though! Also with reduced GL2 c/c.

https://user-ehptxzr.cld.bz/ccf-bookshelf/Tradeline-Brochure-2017/86/

• GL1: TradeLine 2.5m/m2 £0.83/m, £2.08/m2
• GL2: A Hough 12.5p each but 4.2/m2
• GL3: A Hough 18p each but 0.7/m2
• GL8: TradeLine 75p/m

That makes the arbitrary 4m x 4m room 16m2*(£2.08/m2 + £0.53/m2 + £0.13/m2) + 16m*(£0.75/m) = £55.84 or about £3.50/m2 plus screws which is more than BG.

 

BG is only at 600mm centres with GypLyner if using 15mm plasterboard though:

WhiteBook C06. S04. P07

 

If using 12.5mm plasterboard the TradeLine offering will still be cheaper than BG despite using more GL2 brackets.

[MortarThePoint]

@Conorthe pictures you shared are a very useful reference. You've got a mixture of two ceiling systems, GypCeiling Lining (using GL1 Gyplyner and GL2 or similar brackets) and GypCeiling MF (using MF7 Primary channel and MF5 top hat). The former allows a shallower void (down to 25mm) as the height of just the MF7 and MF5 is 70mm so the minimum void with that is likely to be 100mm.

 

My plasterer is nervous about the GypCeiling Lining being flat enough. I had hoped to do something that could be adjusted using packers but MF systems would be harder to do that with that timber battens I think. The GypCeiling MF's primary channel is nice and stiff and the fixings are 1200mm x 1200mm rather than 1200mm x 400mm so any 'gradients' will be less with GypCeiling MF. I've bought a house load of GypCeiling Liner though so I'm going to have to experiment I think. Any tips gratefully received.

Edited June 16, 2022 by MortarThePoint

[Conor]

My guys had no bother getting the channels flat on the shallow depth ceiling section. It was a mix of concrete slab, timber joists and steels. I think the key is to pick you lowest spot to set your ceiling depth so you've a bit of flexibility with fixing the channels. You've also got a fair bit of freedom to where you put your fixings. I know there was one bit where they couldn't fix so the doubled up the channels, i.e. 300mm or 400mm spacing at the section.

[MortarThePoint]

Achieving a small void with a deflection head and metal frame seems challenging. Even reducing the deflection head to 10mm and using standard depth channel makes for a 60mm minimum.

 

Any thoughts? My blockwork has been done in such a way that going beyond a 50-55mm void causes pain.

 

[MortarThePoint]

As it turns out, I have few places that this applies to, and in the longest section of it (6m vs 3.6m) I have worked out it doesn't matter due to a happenstance.

 

Where it still matters, I am wondering about using L-angle on the studs instead of GL8. This should be robust enough. L-angle doesn't cons train the GL1 from moving upwards unit they are screwed together which would normally be done by the drywall screw attaching the plasterboard. I can overcome this by screwing the GL1 to the L-angle before fitting plasterboard.

 

[MortarThePoint]

Some additional information about GL1 and GL8

[Kelvin]

Our architect detailed a 25mm void plus 15mm plasterboard which the lighting designer said was too shallow in their experience. I spoke to the architect about it and asked what normally happens and he said generally the electricians punch through the ceiling void to fit deeper downlights 🙄I said I didn’t want that so increased the void to 50mm. 

[MortarThePoint]

42 minutes ago, Kelvin said:

Our architect detailed a 25mm void plus 15mm plasterboard which the lighting designer said was too shallow in their experience. I spoke to the architect about it and asked what normally happens and he said generally the electricians punch through the ceiling void to fit deeper downlights 🙄I said I didn’t want that so increased the void to 50mm. 

 

Were you using metal wall studs?