repositioning light fixtures

[ash_scotland88]

Following on from the below thread with @TonyT I am looking to reposition a light fixture, although at some point every bedroom will be moved. They're positioned old school mentality of over windows or where a dressing table used to be, not centre to room.

 

Hopefully the below essay will give as much information as possible. Original plan was to cut conduit to move and trim existing cable to new light position.

 

house set-up:

The attic, to use an American thread, is a walk up. Nicely floor board, large void beneath due to joist thickness. At some point in time the odd access has been cut to allow access to the odd junction box but every floorboard is either tacked down or just that old and stubborn, combined with being tongue and grove they are being problematic to lift and refrain from damaging. House is also designed like a story and a half and around the edge of the attic has a kick board around the edge also securely attached to the joists/rafters so starting at one side and removing is not an easy option either. Ceiling is lathe and plaster and has small gap under the joists due to battens running perpendicular.

Found one junction box that looked like it would be twin and earth supplying lights. The current light feels like it is secured from above! No visible screws from below and the small movement I can get feels like one screw is on it. Found a T junction which looks like it would lead to the light but this appears to be individual cables, basically from the middle conduits cores are going left and right and at least one running across.

I am now wondering what my options are.

a) abandon it, this was suppose to be a quick paint and decorate due to old peeling paper and planned guests staying

b) wagos where the light is currently and try and run a cable under joists to new light position*. Effectively making it 2.5 sides of a triangle from switch to light

c) cut conduit at the t junction, secure with wagos and use twin to run from that position to new light position.*

d) cut out ceiling from below to gain access and come up with an electrical and patch up ceiling plan

e) something else?

 

I think c is my current thought, but not so clued up with install standards.

 

*either trying to just push the cable in the void or try a magnet and string method.

 

[ProDave]

Altering a conduit system is not easy, especially if you can't get full access.  If you are planning to cut conduit and alter it still with the cables in, and you think you can cut the conduit without damaging the cables, then best of luck with that, do let us know how you get on.

 

And beware of cutting the conduit and then leaving part of the circuit without an earth.

 

I would seriously suggest rewiring the whole lighting circuit, or you will end up with a rats nest at best / major bodge at worst.

 

And when the customer says they want down lights in a lath and plaster ceiling, I walk.

[ash_scotland88]

I never appreciated that conduit is such a dense metal.

 

As far as I can tell the conduit isn't being used as an earthing method either.

 

Since I have access to a T round joint can I take the lighting feed/cabling from there?

 

Edit:

First picture is the T joint. Picture or oriented wrong but top is actually going "left" to the light with the black, yellow and earth cable.

https://ibb.co/VqLYSFw

 

This is an other joint I've found, I think it's going up to the T.

 

https://ibb.co/cgzb17H

 

Both in in line (if someone wants to make an offer on the corner mitre clamps feel free)

https://ibb.co/FX8ZvBY

 

Light fitting, showing earth, yellow and black. Same as T joint.

https://ibb.co/JyMMGK5

 

 

With information of the above why I can't I cut the cables going to the light* and join new twin and earth at the T joint? Essentially doing the same as the 4way joint?

 

* To be pulled out.

Edited June 10, 2021 by ash_scotland88

[ProDave]

1 hour ago, ash_scotland88 said:

With information of the above why I can't I cut the cables going to the light* and join new twin and earth at the T joint? Essentially doing the same as the 4way joint?

 

Yes you can do that.  Rather than cut the conduit, just pull them out at the first accessible junction box.  You really should terminate them in the conduit box and put a lid on it, which really means drilling a hole in a lid and fitting a grommet, or getting some plastic conduit box lids.

[ash_scotland88]

26 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Yes you can do that.  Rather than cut the conduit, just pull them out at the first accessible junction box.  You really should terminate them in the conduit box and put a lid on it, which really means drilling a hole in a lid and fitting a grommet, or getting some plastic conduit box lids.

Cheers.

Annoyingly the junction is too close to the floor board for coming out the top, going to have to either attempt to drill through the bottom or through the side.

I'd presume it will be 1.5mm twin and earth I'd use, will this be stiff enough to feed through the ceiling?

 

The next thing to plan is how to remove the unused junction that the light is currently in as I think it sits slightly proud of the ceiling.

How solid the floor boards are in the attic have annoyed me.

[ProDave]

1 hour ago, ash_scotland88 said:

Cheers.

Annoyingly the junction is too close to the floor board for coming out the top, going to have to either attempt to drill through the bottom or through the side.

I'd presume it will be 1.5mm twin and earth I'd use, will this be stiff enough to feed through the ceiling?

 

The next thing to plan is how to remove the unused junction that the light is currently in as I think it sits slightly proud of the ceiling.

How solid the floor boards are in the attic have annoyed me.

I always use 1mm for lighting.

 

You will need to feed something stiff through first and use that to pull it through usually.

 

Can you not get onto the unused / unwanted leg of conduit and unscrew it?  That will give you the side hole you want to exit the t&e cable.

[ash_scotland88]

26 minutes ago, ProDave said:

I always use 1mm for lighting.

 

You will need to feed something stiff through first and use that to pull it through usually.

 

Can you not get onto the unused / unwanted leg of conduit and unscrew it?  That will give you the side hole you want to exit the t&e cable.

I tried by hand but it was even wanting to budge, hack saw through? ?

Thanks for cable recommendation.

 

I'm wondering what I can use as a rod, old fishing pole...

 

I do hate leaving old unused stuff in but I can't see a way to remove the old conduit without damaging something else.

 

Edited June 10, 2021 by ash_scotland88

[TonyT]

Get a plastic joint box.

Drill a hole in the bottom about 50mm

drill 2 holes and use 2off 2BA machine screws to fix plastic box to metal conduit box.

 

or cut conduit, use a knock on adaptor and change to plastic conduit/ JB etc

 

Lots of ways of making it compliant

[ash_scotland88]

Been able to do it today. Thanks for all the help

 

Broke the push rods, snapped a brass thread somehow.

 

Some issues with the old conduit but will just leave that in place- it's just me that likes to remove old, unused components out of a house.

 

Now just to patch up the old hole.

 

Next, consumer units!...

 

Jokes, it'll be repositioning more lights no doubt. Maybe who knows.