Cil commencement two plots on one PP self builders

[Barking99]

Hello

I have two plots with pp. (both on one PP) I am self building and have a cil exemption on plot one and selling plot 2 to a self builder.
As, I don’t want to trigger cil if I commence on my plot. Which means the other self builder won’t be able to claim exemption from cil. (Not phased)

Is there anyway around this as it seems very unfair for the other self builder if I start and he then becomes liable for his cil without exemption because of this?

Thanks

[newhome]

1 minute ago, Barking99 said:

 

Is there anyway around this as it seems very unfair for the other self builder if I start and he then becomes liable for his cil without exemption because of this?

Only if you phase the development. You should try asking for a non material amendment to do this and explain that it’s intended that the second plot is for a self builder. You trigger the liability currently as soon as you commence so you are the liable person at this point. 
 

[Temp]

This is 2nd time its come up in a week. I think the only official solution is to apply to ammend the PP to make it phased. I'm afraid I don't know how hard or easy that will be.

 

The council might be willing to waive the rules but historically letters from the council relating to planning matters have not been legally binding unless they are a formal Grant of Planning or a Cerrificate of Lawfulness.

[Moonshine]

1 minute ago, Temp said:

I think the only official solution is to apply to ammend the PP to make it phased. I'm afraid I don't know how hard or easy that will be.

 

This, it has to be phased. I have been through this process, and the local authority won't allow a phased development for two houses.

Many other places do, and I know of one local authority self build spd that outlines the phased route for self build developments 

[Temp]

If they won't allow a phased development perhaps the only answer is to submit two seperarate planning applications? Perhaps just one if the owner of the second plot is going to make his own application? 

[Barking99]

Thank you. So I would have to apply for a NMA. Do you know how long this would likely take to approve?
So I would not be able to start before approval? I know the council like to receive funds from CIL charging can they refuse the amendment?  ( genuine self builders)

[Temp]

Not sure if the rules have changed but you must NOT start anything until you have done the CIL exemption paperwork process. Its detailed at the top of one of the claim forms. Fail to follow the process can make you liable for the CIL.

[Barking99]

The problem is I want to get on with my self build as soon as possible but feel guilty if it denies the other self builder the opportunity for exemption.

 I originally was going to build the two houses (1self-build)and in hindsight should thought more about cil liability.

 It does seem an unfair system when they are trying to promote selling plots to self-builders 

[newhome]

6 minutes ago, Barking99 said:

The problem is I want to get on with my self build as soon as possible but feel guilty if it denies the other self builder the opportunity for exemption.

Well if it’s savvy self builder and savvy solicitor they will ask that you pay the CIL on the second plot given that you triggered the liability making it impossible for them to get an exemption. 
 

 

[Temp]

The value of the plot to the buyer probably takes the CIL exemption  into account. So if you suddenly tell him he's going to pay it he may reduce his offer or back out. Its like buying a house and discovering at the last moment the seller is taking the conservatory with them.

[Barking99]

If the second plot owner applies for PP (as they might want to change the Plans anyway)would that still mean I could not start my self build until he has permission?

[nod]

We are in a similar  position 

Two plots with Planning in principle 

We intend to build one for ourselves 

and was hoping to at least do the foundations on the second 

The Architecht has suggested that this could jeopardize the Cil on plot one 

and thinks that even submitting plans for plot two may jeopardize plot ones Cil 

Any thoughts 

 

Sorry to hyjack your thread Barking 

 

[Barking99]

You will get a self build exemption for Plot1 as long as you fill in all correct paperwork and also a commencement form before you start on any works.  But you will be liable for the cil on the other plot as soon as you start aswell.

[Temp]

3 minutes ago, Barking99 said:

If the second plot owner applies for PP (as they might want to change the Plans anyway)would that still mean I could not start my self build until he has permission?

 

I don't think his planning application would change anything. He would get an exemption for the CIL on that one but i think he would still get a bill for the existing one whenever you start. Even if that was a few years after he's finished building. I don't know if this has ever happened but I can't think of a reason why not. The CIL rules don't take all possibilities into account.

 

I heard a story that one man died during construction of his self build. His widow finished the house but didn't want to live in such a big place on her own. Council reminded her she couldn't move for three years or she would lose the exemption.

 

 

 

 

[Barking99]

(Newhome)We are completing this Friday on the sale so it appears none of us inc myself are very savvy!  
I stupidly read it as self builders were exempt and didn’t think of looking into at depth at time when applying for PP. 

Just looking for a way around this to help the other self builder as I have my exemption and transfer of liability 

 

 

[Temp]

11 minutes ago, Barking99 said:

You will get a self build exemption for Plot1 as long as you fill in all correct paperwork and also a commencement form before you start on any works.  But you will be liable for the cil on the other plot as soon as you start aswell.

 

My understanding  is that you can withdraw your own liability and if nobody else accepts liability it runs with the land.  So a new owner could get a surprise bill.

[Temp]

4 minutes ago, Barking99 said:

(Newhome)We are completing this Friday on the sale so it appears none of us inc myself are very savvy!  
I stupidly read it as self builders were exempt and didn’t think of looking into at depth at time when applying for PP. 

Just looking for a way around this to help the other self builder as I have my exemption and transfer of liability 

 

 

 

They aren't automatically exempt. See my post earlier about claiming and qualifying for the exemption.

 

You should ask your solicitor what the contract says about the CIL ASAP.

[Barking99]

(Temp) thank you. That’s what I thought. Yes it just doesn’t seem to cover all scenarios.
And I can’t see why if the other owner says he is a self builder and fills his exemption form in now why he can’t get an exemption aswell. He still has to comply the same rules ie live in it for 3 years , bills proof he lives there etc.

 

 

 

[nod]

25 minutes ago, Barking99 said:

You will get a self build exemption for Plot1 as long as you fill in all correct paperwork and also a commencement form before you start on any works.  But you will be liable for the cil on the other plot as soon as you start aswell.

Yes thanks 

Have one Cil with twelve months to run on our previous build which was Quick and easy to set up 

But your right They are supposed to be encouraging self builders 

[Barking99]

(Temp) I have my cil exemption from the council. Filled all forms in. Also my sale contract indemnifies me from cil and states new owner to make enquiries regarding cil.

But I also would like to do my best to help them if I can. As it does seem unfair.