Ideas for improvements on odd water supply

[Kilt]

We have a bit of an odd water supply.

 

In valley bottom, we have a Toby/stopcock which is supplied by Scottish Water. 
Water then flows uphill via mains pressure alone, (50m elevation over 1km pipe run.. 1:20), in a single pipe to a private 1000L break tank. 
We then have 2 Dab pumps (running in tandem) providing mains pressure to 6 houses. 
 

In the winter, when mains pressure is high (+4 bar), water flows uphill easily, and meets our demands. 
But in the summer when demand increases and pressure drops on the Mains, the flow reduces, and we occasional get pump “dry runs”, whilst break tank catches back up.

I’m concerned in the future (lower mains pressure, higher demand or more houses on mains) we could have more frequent issued, or worse, lose supply. 
 

What solutions would you clever folks suggest, ideally one we can get Scottish Water to install/supply! ?

 

Initial thoughts would be a ram pump, as no electricity needed at stopcock location.. but if memory serves, rams are 1:7, (ram length gives you x7 in height).

Another, far more expensive idea, would be to install a new Toby and 1km water pipe line, to effectively double supply and/or another break tank, and to split the 6 houses up. 

 

This is purely a discussion topic, thoughts appreciated. 

[ProDave]

A ram pump will increase the head that it will pump, but only by dumping some of the water so I doubt the volume delivered will increase.  Are you even allowed to fit such a thing to a mains water pipe?

 

What is the pressure at the toby? and what size is the pipe from the toby to the break tank?  Probably the best thing you can do is increase the size of the pipe or fit a second in parallel to get as much flow as the water pressure will allow.

 

And fit a float switch in the break tank to stop the pumps running dry if usage is too much.

 

I assume the pumps are pumping until an accumulator near the houses reaches a set pressure?

[jamieled]

The ram needs a source of water to work and using treated water for this is not acceptable under water use regs so unless you have a secondary source of water I can't see that working.

 

Can you fit a high suction pump on the down slope side of the break tank and use a pressure switch to operate it?

[TonyT]

Increase size of holding tank, this may be the easiest option, maybe read the meter monthly to work out consumption and size tank accordingly.

 

is there power at the valley/stopcock area, to add a pump set up if the other option isn’t viable?

 

 

[Kilt]

2 hours ago, ProDave said:

A ram pump will increase the head that it will pump, but only by dumping some of the water so I doubt the volume delivered will increase.  Are you even allowed to fit such a thing to a mains water pipe?

 

What is the pressure at the toby? and what size is the pipe from the toby to the break tank?  Probably the best thing you can do is increase the size of the pipe or fit a second in parallel to get as much flow as the water pressure will allow.

 

And fit a float switch in the break tank to stop the pumps running dry if usage is too much.

 

I assume the pumps are pumping until an accumulator near the houses reaches a set pressure?

Good questions.

 

Ram - probably not, only seen them in an agricultural setting. Don’t even know if Water Authorities use them. I just vaguely remember seenu from examples. 
 

toby pressure - around 4-5 bar (in winter)

 

pipe size is unknown (predates my occupancy) but imagine only 50-63 MDPE (by size of an AAV, half way along pipe run). 
 

float switch is idea, however pumps have good controls, so a dry run only requires a power cycle to bring them back online. No need to prime. 
 

no accumulator, pumps just set to provide set bar, and keep water at that bar. As soon as bar pressure falls, one pump kicks in, if demand is higher than one pump can handle, second kicks in. Been really impressed the DAB pumps. Simple to use, and worked flawlessly for last 6 years.

[Kilt]

1 hour ago, jamieled said:Can you fit a high suction pump on the down slope side of the break tank and use a pressure switch to operate it?

Don’t know about these, will have a look. 
 

[Kilt]

1 hour ago, TonyT said:

Increase size of holding tank, this may be the easiest option, maybe read the meter monthly to work out consumption and size tank accordingly.

 

is there power at the valley/stopcock area, to add a pump set up if the other option isn’t viable?

 

 

Our current tank is underground, with pump-house built ontop of it.

prob be a price comparison between new tank or new additional supply. Both going to be expensive. 
 

Toby’s are on the edge of an A road. No power currently, and we’re not metered either. 
 

the other side of village have a separate supply (but same Toby location and elevation), but their supply is even more complicated, with three break tanks and various T’s off similar size pipe to us. They have terrible water pressure, but don’t run out of water, as far as I’m aware. 

[TonyT]

Meter the end user, they will start to watch their water consumption!!