Am I wise using different architects for Planning stage & "Working drawings" stage?

[JohnW]

I'm hoping the collective wisdom of this forum can help me make a key decision.

 

I have used an architect (let's call him "Architect 1") for the concept design and to take that design through to planning stage. Architect 1 is based approximately 35 miles from my site.

What I am considering now is to engage a local architect (let's call him "Architect 2"), based less than 1 mile from site, to take the approved planning drawings and produce the detailed drawing required for Building Control and tender submission and ultimately through to completion of the build.

 

I welcome your thoughts and advice.

Edited February 7, 2017 by JohnW

[Oz07]

Done before myself. Horses for courses remember. Some are good at putting schemes together and getting planning. Others are more technical. Make sure no copyright issues. 

[Fallingditch]

I changed Architects twice, and Structural Engineers three times. Very happy with Architect B (who I paid by the hour) and Structural Engineer C (who was paid an agreed sum for all work done).

 

Since the time when my foundations were dug, I dont think if have had more than a couple of phone calls with Architect B - we are both fine with that.

 

The key player now for me is the person managing my build (not me btw), who I pay by the hour. Call him a builder, or a project manager, he is the guy that tells the workers what needs to get done, how it needs to be done and in what sequence. (Er, I havent done too much physical work on my build). So when you say " ultimately through to completion of the build" - in my view I would not have got much value if I had used an architect for any activity post detailed drawings.

 

To answer your question - I would not have a moments hesitation in switching architects - but carefully consider their role during the actual construction.

[ToughButterCup]

I think one important factor to add to the decisionmaking process is your degree of personal involvement in the build. 

 

I am very involved, and so I am doing a good deal of interpretation of the architects submission to the BCO. For example this week I have decided we need a simple table of levels to which everyone (all trades) can refer. The information is available in the drawings, but it's difficult to extract because it's to be found spread over several separate drawings, some from the architect, some from the SE, and (in our case) from the piler. Reading that material with care has been most instructive for a first time self builder like me.

 

No matter who drafts which drawing, there will be a need for coordination. A professional colleague being 'just-down-the-road' could be an asset. But proximity is no substitute for good interpersonal chemistry.

 

[JohnW]

12 hours ago, Oz07 said:

Done before myself. Horses for courses remember. Some are good at putting schemes together and getting planning. Others are more technical. Make sure no copyright issues. 

I totally agree. Architect 1, in my opinion had great ideas and Architect 2, has great attention to detail and is very reliable.

 

Any suggestions on how to broach the subject of copyright with Architect 1?

[JohnW]

12 hours ago, Fallingditch said:

I changed Architects twice, and Structural Engineers three times. Very happy with Architect B (who I paid by the hour) and Structural Engineer C (who was paid an agreed sum for all work done).

 

Since the time when my foundations were dug, I dont think if have had more than a couple of phone calls with Architect B - we are both fine with that.

 

The key player now for me is the person managing my build (not me btw), who I pay by the hour. Call him a builder, or a project manager, he is the guy that tells the workers what needs to get done, how it needs to be done and in what sequence. (Er, I havent done too much physical work on my build). So when you say " ultimately through to completion of the build" - in my view I would not have got much value if I had used an architect for any activity post detailed drawings.

 

To answer your question - I would not have a moments hesitation in switching architects - but carefully consider their role during the actual construction.

It's reassuring that it's not just me then.

 

I was under the impression that the Architect was needed to check each stage of the build to certify the end product, almost like a self-builder version of NHBC?

[JohnW]

4 hours ago, recoveringacademic said:

I think one important factor to add to the decisionmaking process is your degree of personal involvement in the build. 

 

I am very involved, and so I am doing a good deal of interpretation of the architects submission to the BCO. For example this week I have decided we need a simple table of levels to which everyone (all trades) can refer. The information is available in the drawings, but it's difficult to extract because it's to be found spread over several separate drawings, some from the architect, some from the SE, and (in our case) from the piler. Reading that material with care has been most instructive for a first time self builder like me.

 

No matter who drafts which drawing, there will be a need for coordination. A professional colleague being 'just-down-the-road' could be an asset. But proximity is no substitute for good interpersonal chemistry.

 

It sounds like you know what you're doing with regards to the drawings & levels. Time spent by you in creating the table will obviously help all the trades involved and hopefully make the build run smoothly.

 

I totally agree, professional chemistry or lack thereof could destroy a project. I know Architect 2 quite well and have been involved in projects with him in the past, so I'm confident that we will  work well together.

[Oz07]

Just be frank. Say you may not be able to give him the whole project after planning and you would want to own the copyright. Not quite sure how it works might be a grey area but as long as you've discussed it. 

[MikeSharp01]

3 hours ago, JohnW said:

 

I was under the impression that the Architect was needed to check each stage of the build to certify the end product, almost like a self-builder version of NHBC?

This is the structural warranty and comes either from an architect or more usually through an insurance product linked to the BCO scheme you choose. The architect (B) might not want to provide the warranty because their indemnity does not cover it. There are loads of companies offering structural warranties so hunt around. Make sure you get Architect A to releases the copyright to the drawings before moving to architect B.

[JohnW]

34 minutes ago, MikeSharp01 said:

This is the structural warranty and comes either from an architect or more usually through an insurance product linked to the BCO scheme you choose. The architect (B) might not want to provide the warranty because their indemnity does not cover it. There are loads of companies offering structural warranties so hunt around. Make sure you get Architect A to releases the copyright to the drawings before moving to architect B.

Thanks @MikeSharp01.

 

Sorry can you explain what you mean by "BCO scheme" please?

Also, if you have any suggestions on how to broach the subject of releasing copyright of the drawings, I'd be interested in hearing them.

[JohnW]

3 hours ago, Oz07 said:

Just be frank. Say you may not be able to give him the whole project after planning and you would want to own the copyright. Not quite sure how it works might be a grey area but as long as you've discussed it. 

Thanks @Oz07 - I've a good working relationship with Architect 1 and I know they are swamped with work, so I may try to present it as taking some of the load off him!! You never know, it might work.

[MikeSharp01]

The Build Control Officer (BCO) they have to inspect the work, ensuring your building is built according to the building Regulations (BR), as you progress. You only need the architect to inspect the works if they are offing the structural warranty (they may not be cheap and they may not wish to anyway). You can buy an insurance backed warranty that takes the BCO's inspections and gives you a warranty for the building. The architect will need to prepare the full plans, all the detailed drawings, which includes getting a structural engineer (SE) to do all the structural calculations. The architect is responsible for ensuring that the design meets building regs at this stage, but things can change - see below. These, full plans, are what the BCO will approve, before you start, and then inspect the work at various stages along the way. The architect is only needed, if at all, after the BCO gets stuck in to resolve issues you find with the detailed drawings. Changes which affect the structure and / or any of the building regs will need to be agreed with the BCO as you go along.

 

Hope that helps. 

[JohnW]

Thanks again @MikeSharp01.

 

The Architect offers a service covering RIBA stages 5 & 6 which they refer to as Site Operations & Contract Administration. I assume if the BCO is checking things regularly and I trust the builder, I will not need the Architect to oversee the build.

 

Finally can you recommend any organisations that offer insurance backed warranties?

[MikeSharp01]

Your are correct 5&6 is very much optional but as Kevin McCloud said when filming a friend of mines grand design 'if i was spending a million pounds and I was not confident of my capabilities I would want to be shackled to somebody who knew what they were doing' or some such. There are many building warranty suppliers and they have been discussed elsewhere on this forum eg here: