Attic room to liveable room- will I need architect plans?

[Mrsrc]

Hi there. Very new to renovation projects. 

We're looking at buying a 3 bed house that currently has an attic room. Lots of space, 2 windows (1 standard, 1 velux), central heated radiators, flooring etc. 

Estate agents have advised its not a legal living space due to the stairs being too steep. If we wanted to convert to a full on 4th bedroom, would I need an architect to draw up plans? Get planning permission? Or can I simply get a builder who specialises in loft conversions and ask them to convert it so it complies with building regs? 

Any advice would  be greatly appreciated. 

Thanks 

[joe90]

Personally I would get a recommended local loft conversion company round, they will know the regs but they may need to “cut” into stuff to see what’s there and they could give you an estimate to do any work required.

[ProDave]

How "out of spec" is the staircase?

 

If not much, I would just use the room, and accept when you sell on, it might still not be classed as a bedroom.

 

To convert legally everything has to comply, stairs, headroom, insulation, fire escape access etc.

 

Plenty of old houses with stairs that won't meet current building regs and they are not deemed "not habitable"

[juncopartner]

You have an illegal loft conversion that has been carried out without B Regs, please note B regs is a statutory requirement, how you or an estate agent describes it has no relevance to B Regs.
To legalise it you will need to apply for a Regularisation Certificate with the local authority, this will mean opening up/remedying  parts of the work to comply with the B regs applicable at the time of construction.  This option is only available for work carried out after 11 November 1985.

[joe90]

9 minutes ago, juncopartner said:

To legalise it you will need to apply for a Regularisation Certificate with the local authority, this will mean opening up/remedying  parts of the work to comply with the B regs applicable at the time of construction.  This option is only available for work carried out after 11 November 1985.

Are you saying anything done before this date does not need building regs?

It’s been suggested before there is a cut off date regarding this kind of work. My son has a Victorian house that was built originally with a room in the loft but there is no way it would pass building regs but was mortgaged as the loft room was accepted.

 

[PeterW]

18 minutes ago, juncopartner said:

You have an illegal loft conversion that has been carried out without B Regs, please note B regs is a statutory requirement, how you or an estate agent describes it has no relevance to B Regs.

How do you know that ..?? Depending on the staircase, it could be an existing one and the loft was converted in the 1970’s and it is perfectly legal. A steep staircase does not indicate no building regulations compliance as otherwise there are a lot of 1920’s terraces that are no longer “legal”. 

 

16 hours ago, Mrsrc said:

Estate agents have advised its not a legal living space due to the stairs being too steep. If we wanted to convert to a full on 4th bedroom, would I need an architect to draw up plans? Get planning permission? Or can I simply get a builder who specialises in loft conversions and ask them to convert it so it complies with building regs? 

On what basis have the agents advised ..? Have the vendors told them..? Or is it “opinion”..?? If it’s the former then I would want to know what else has been done , and what other changes have been made and by whom. If the Vendor has done the conversion then not only would the stairs need to be resolved, there would be questions on the window (existing or new) and also insulation, structure and wiring. 
 

Start with the question of “When was the conversion done” and work back from there. 
 

 

[joe90]

I have done quite a few “illegal “ loft conversions ?, structural floor, insulated, plasterboarded, velux, quality pull down loft ladder, not intended for “a living space” purely quality storage. ( a good friend is a BI and he confirmed they are ok).

[juncopartner]

21 minutes ago, PeterW said:

How do you know that ..?? Depending on the staircase, it could be an existing one and the loft was converted in the 1970’s and it is perfectly legal. A steep staircase does not indicate no building regulations compliance as otherwise there are a lot of 1920’s terraces that are no longer “legal”. 

 

The inference in the original post is that it has been carried out illegally, if it it does indeed date back to1920 or converted in 1970 then this should have been checked before putting it on the market, although I would have thought a 1920's loft would be pretty obvious.

 

19 minutes ago, joe90 said:

I have done quite a few “illegal “ loft conversions ?, structural floor, insulated, plasterboarded, velux, quality pull down loft ladder, not intended for “a living space” purely quality storage. ( a good friend is a BI and he confirmed they are ok).

Interesting interpretation, quite how he would defend that decision at an inquest if something went wrong would be interesting.
I am a BCO and this is not something I would accept or for that matter have any of the authorities I've worked.

[joe90]

Just now, juncopartner said:

I am a BCO and this is not something I would accept or for that matter have any of the authorities I've worked.

one thing I have noticed working in different parts of the country is there appears no “National standard” applied by different BCO,s. There have been many threads on this forum involving BCO decisions that contradict others. Welcome by the way, a BCO here will be a great asset.

[joe90]

This from the planning portal 

Building regulations approval is required to convert a loft or attic into a liveable space.

 

If you decide to create a liveable space (a 'liveable space' is where you intend to use the room as a normal part of your house, including spare bedrooms which may be used infrequently) in an existing loft space of a home it is likely to require a range of alterations.

 

”living space “ is where I was told the difference is. 

 

 

[PeterW]

9 minutes ago, juncopartner said:

Interesting interpretation, quite how he would defend that decision at an inquest if something went wrong would be interesting.

Non issue - has a loft ladder so isn’t habitable. Use of it as a habitable space would be at owners risk. 

[ProDave]

This comes up in property buying and selling websites a lot.

 

The timescale for building control to take action is quite short, only a few years, so in a great many cases if the work can be proved to have been done outside the time for enforcement action, then the resolution is an indemnity policy, but that can only be purchased if you have not contacted BCO about it.

 

Did you get a statement from he vendor saying when the loft conversion was done?  That date is crucial in knowing how to proceed.

[PeterW]

11 minutes ago, juncopartner said:

I am a BCO and this is not something I would accept or for that matter have any of the authorities I've worked

Approved inspector or LABC..? 

[juncopartner]

5 minutes ago, PeterW said:

Approved inspector or LABC..? 

labc

[juncopartner]

7 minutes ago, ProDave said:

The timescale for building control to take action is quite short, only a few years, so in a great many cases if the work can be proved to have been done outside the time for enforcement action, then the resolution is an indemnity policy, but that can only be purchased if you have not contacted BCO about it.

 

Its 2 years, but buying an indemnity is a waste of money if the 2 years has already expired, you're insuring for something that already cannot happen

[ProDave]

12 minutes ago, juncopartner said:

Its 2 years, but buying an indemnity is a waste of money if the 2 years has already expired, you're insuring for something that already cannot happen

Yes but it seems to make buyers and lenders a bit more comfortable with the situation.

[juncopartner]

13 minutes ago, ProDave said:

Yes but it seems to make buyers and lenders a bit more comfortable with the situation.

Maybe. but its a bit pointless when the work is already statute barred from enforcement.  Its little more than a con.

[joe90]

14 minutes ago, juncopartner said:

Its little more than a con.

I would agree, I have come across several house sales  where indemnity policies were sold for no real gain (IMO) just a money maker for solicitors and insurance agencies.

I notice @Mrsrc has not come back to this topic!.

Edited December 16, 2020 by joe90

[Mrsrc]

On 16/12/2020 at 11:18, joe90 said:

I would agree, I have come across several house sales  where indemnity policies were sold for no real gain (IMO) just a money maker for solicitors and insurance agencies.

I notice @Mrsrc has not come back to this topic!.

Hi guys. I really do appreciate all of the advice. I have literally only just been able to log back onto the forum so today is the 1st day I've read any posts! Christmas and illness have tied up my time. 

Just to clarify, I don't know (yet) when the attic was converted but will certainly be asking the question. It was the estate who has said that its not a liveable space, and their advice was that this is due to the stairs being too steep. No mention from them about insulation etc but we are planning on getting a full structural survey prior to exchange of contracts

[Mrsrc]

On 16/12/2020 at 10:08, juncopartner said:

The inference in the original post is that it has been carried out illegally, if it it does indeed date back to1920 or converted in 1970 then this should have been checked before putting it on the market, although I would have thought a 1920's loft would be pretty obvious.

 

Interesting interpretation, quite how he would defend that decision at an inquest if something went wrong would be interesting.
I am a BCO and this is not something I would accept or for that matter have any of the authorities I've worked.

I suspect its more 1970 work. It's previously been used as storage. Can attach pics if interested. 

[Mrsrc]

On 15/12/2020 at 17:54, joe90 said:

Personally I would get a recommended local loft conversion company round, they will know the regs but they may need to “cut” into stuff to see what’s there and they could give you an estimate to do any work required.

I think that's def something we will look into. Hopefully they will be able to advise fully and price it all up. Thanks so much for your advice xx