Door Threshold - Internorm Sliders

[canalsiderenovation]

We are still waiting for our replacement door handle from Internorm and a final visit to go through things and I just want to check the 5.5m sliding door and thresholds/floor heights incase there is some issues I need to raise.

 

The floor pad is slightly higher and we are then needing our LVT flooring on top which is around 2.5mm. I think Internorm/John Knight fitters mentioned something about 'a strip on the edge' but I'm not sure what this is. Should there be any alarm bells based on the pics below?

 

 

 

[Kilt]

Hmmm... I would have definitely expected there to be some mm on the threshold, above finished floor level. I know the desire is to have it completely flat/seamless finish between floor and window. But to help with water ingress, we were told to have it as high as possible, but max is to have floor finish at threshold aris. Yours looks to be above this.

Who specified the finished floor level? What threshold depth did you go with? I take it the window moves freely?

 

 

Here's ours, if that's of help. (the finished floor is a currently bathroom board, but its exactly floor level finish, give or take 5mm).

 

On a side note, how well protected are your external drainage holes? There's a known issue with drainage on these doors. Under storm conditions, the internal channel can fill up with water. I was told that Internorm have been able to create the issue in their Lab! 2 years on, no fix!

 

[canalsiderenovation]

40 minutes ago, Kilt said:

Yours looks to be above this.

Who specified the finished floor level? What threshold depth did you go with? I take it the window moves freely?

 

We had two visits from John Knight Glass/Internorm to discuss this and they also met with builders when discussing floor level and we picked flooring before we even got footings in so knew this all along, I'm not sure. No issues with sliders yet but I'll get some more pics later today. Internorm/John Knight rung today wanting to do an inspection post installation but we still don't have a sliding door handle so I won't be signing anything off til they happens.

[Kilt]

1 minute ago, canalsiderenovation said:

John Knight Glass/Internorm to discuss this and they also met with builders

yeah this sounds familiar... we've issues with ours due to above. Our branch pointed fingers at builder error and they pointed fingers at window company not doing correct job. Builders assume a slider can be packed up, were as window co want perfect level and no work.

 

Have you scope for window to come out and go up? Might be easier than trying to lower floor? I take it there's UFH in the screed?

 

Sounds like your John Knight will be able to advise if it's too low.

[Dave Jones]

there will definitely need to be an upstand on the inside, even a small one to provide a water barrier if you are looking to to a level threshold outside. 

 

It will 100% leak otherwise.

[Dave Jones]

here is one of our bifolds, the finished floor (engineered oak that sits on the slab) is dead level with the porcelain outside, this leaves a 10mm upstand on the inside as a weatherseal.  NHBC wouldn't sign off a true level threshold as they leak. Apparently there is a new profile system that can give level and no leaks but too new out for us to use in time. We put a very thin linear drain in front of door and tiled right upto it. To get around breaching DPC either side of the door we used a vertical DPC so actual DPC level is 12" above FFL.

 

 

 

[canalsiderenovation]

43 minutes ago, Kilt said:

Have you scope for window to come out and go up? Might be easier than trying to lower floor? I take it there's UFH in the screed?

 

Nope, it's a glazed gable.

 

43 minutes ago, Kilt said:

Sounds like your John Knight will be able to advise if it's too low.

 

They are coming out Friday so I'll ask the builder to be there as well.

 

42 minutes ago, Dave Jones said:

there will definitely need to be an upstand on the inside, even a small one to provide a water barrier if you are looking to to a level threshold outside. 

 

It will 100% leak otherwise.

 

Right ok hopefully can discuss on Friday with both. I know the builders mentioned this when the doors were being fitted and something was mentioned about a trim or something. 

[Dave Jones]

it cant really see it can be a trim as it has to form part of the window frame to stop water coming in. Think torrential downpour on your paving which are sitting the same height as your internal floor. 3 or 4mm of water against the door/glass needs to be stopped somehow otherwise it will run under your internal floor. 

[SuperJohnG]

I have just finished doing my levels for my sliders as I need to put a recess in the insulated slab in order to have a 'near as dammit' flush threshold. 

 

I am also using LVT, and albeit I am aiming for a flat slab which will be power floated, the margin for error with LVT is minimal, hence an acrylic latex screed may be required. Minimum you can have is 3mm. 

 

I didn't want to be in a position where i hadn't made an allowance hence allowed for two scenarios, one with and without screed. Then I drew out the levels - see attached. 

 

Ideally 5mm min showing on threshold, then you have 5mm on the slider rail (middle of the door). Then I made allowance for amtico, screed, etc. I've made the choice to just put a bigger recess in the slab then pack up as required when fitting as by then i will know if a screed is required. 

 

The outside level should sit below that outer lip and then ensures no ingress on my sliders (Zyle Fenster) - not entirely flush but ensures no ingress. 

 

It's not ideal having the FFL higher than the slider inside, but it won't cause ingress of water. On the outside there must ( I assume!) be a slope like my drawing, then as long as your paving goes below the lip or you have drainage right there it will be fine.

 

If you can still raise issue for snagging on window install, 'd be asking why it wasn't packed up, but that assumes there was space available to pack  it up?

 

 

 

 JG Threshold buildup Model (1).pdf

 

 

[Dave Jones]

why goto the hassle of level threshold and still have the sill on the outside ?

 

Maybe im missing something.

[Adam2]

Don't know if this helps any but this is my detail coordinated between architect, engineer and glazing co. This is a  ground floor where we wanted level threshold for a sliding door. Outside the slot channel drain goes into the Aco or similar with the ground sloping away from the doors. Under the doors is ICF/concrete and may put cement board beneath the door with a levelling compound below that to help ensure a flat and stable base. 

[canalsiderenovation]

2 hours ago, SuperJohnG said:

It's not ideal having the FFL higher than the slider inside, but it won't cause ingress of water. On the outside there must ( I assume!) be a slope like my drawing, then as long as your paving goes below the lip or you have drainage right there it will be fine.

 

If you can still raise issue for snagging on window install, 'd be asking why it wasn't packed up, but that assumes there was space available to pack  it up?

 

 

There is space for paving below the lip and drainage, infact that's exactly what the builder was saying earlier this evening. Sorry it was dark tonight but that's the current situation.

 

 

This was shortly after the fitting.

 

[SuperJohnG]

3 hours ago, Dave Jones said:

why goto the hassle of level threshold and still have the sill on the outside ?

 

Maybe im missing something.

I hadn't really though about that too much. Having a sill was something I hadn't picked up on, but looks like it could be removed if required. 

 

@canalsiderenovation from your pics I think you'll be fine if it falls away on the outside. You can see why they haven't packed it up as the head of the slider looks tight to the beam from the pics.  

 

 

[Dave Jones]

Noticed your sewer coming out very high through the wall, appears to be through the screed on the inside. Did the builders forget to put it in before the foundations or a late addition ? Cant see a lintel over it either looks core drilled ? Has your building control seen it, maybe they are less strict your way ?

 

https://nhbc-standards.co.uk/5-substructure-ground-floors-drainage-and-basements/5-3-drainage-below-ground/5-3-14-protection-of-pipework/

90 bends are a big nono for our building control, cant see from that pic if it has a rodding eye built into it for unblocking but make sure there is one as it will be impossible to force a rod up two 90 degree bends  from the chamber.

 

Will also be hard to hide that as slabbing over will bring you to more than 150mm to DPC level unless you have a vertical DPC all way round ?

 

Keep your eye on the builders !!

 

[canalsiderenovation]

56 minutes ago, Dave Jones said:

Did the builders forget to put it in before the foundations or a late addition ?

 

No it's block and beam and was sorted before as we knew where we wanted the toilet all along. I don't know about our building control but I know there has been a few meetings via Skype with them.

 

 

1 hour ago, Dave Jones said:

Will also be hard to hide that as slabbing over will bring you to more than 150mm to DPC level unless you have a vertical DPC all way round ?

 

I actually mentioned this yesterday as it occured to me then when I was looking at the sliding door threshold. It's hard to tell from this picture if there is rodding eyes?

[Dave Jones]

looking at the second picture you posted can just see the lintel over what looks to be another sewer run, guessing it goes to the outlet in the middle of the room ?

 

I'd get the builder to cut out that bit of floor inside and connect into that run and do away with that 90 hanging out the wall will look so much better.

 

 

[canalsiderenovation]

20 minutes ago, Dave Jones said:

looking at the second picture you posted can just see the lintel over what looks to be another sewer run, guessing it goes to the outlet in the middle of the room ?

 

I'd get the builder to cut out that bit of floor inside and connect into that run and do away with that 90 hanging out the wall will look so much better.

 

 

 

That is the shower!

[Dave Jones]

even better, get them to connect onto it assuming you having got underfloor pipes in the screed.

 

Edited November 3, 2020 by Dave Jones