Prep for shower tray

[Pocster]

Right !

 

Finally back on this !

I don’t like the tray trap as it’s a screw fitting then a push fitting . I worry if it leaks access from even below is awkward ( hence widening hole in the beam and block ) . Trap though unluckily sits above a beam ( rather than a block ) .

So going to get this position right .

[joe90]

Is it the screw or push fitting you don’t like?, I have come across loads that are many years old and still ok. Just make sure you use the right pipe as push fit and solvent weld are different diameters!!!! If the rest of the pipework is solvent might be worth finding a trap with both joints screw type? (Mine are but came with the tray so don’t know the make).

[Pocster]

Fitted the trap to the tray and lowered it in . I think from underneath I can get to it ( worst case chip more block out ) .

So ! . Need to glue and screw marine ply down . Then attempt to use tile adhesive to fill any floor gaps ( between marine ply and screed floor ) . Also ‘skim’ tile adhesive over some of the ply to get to screed height - so level ( ish ) 

[Pocster]

Trays pretty tight on all sides . I know I’ve got to bed it in sand/ cement but also ct1 around those edges . Presume once I’m ready to bed it I can ct1 the lower part of the wall ? I.e so as I bed it ct1 squishes our the edges ( easier than trying to it in afterwards ?? )

[Nickfromwales]

Pinged this only the other day. 
Have a read. 
 

 

[Pocster]

8 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Pinged this only the other day. 
Have a read. 
 

 

Ok !

Right ( tries not to be confused ) .

I forgot (!!!! ) I have a waterproofing kit ( shouldn’t really of forgotten that ) .

 

So - order of tasks 

 

1. Glue and screw ply down 

2. delta seal all joints 

3. water proof paste 

4. fleece and pre form corners 

5. more paste 

 

I.e as instructions .

 

At this point I assume I would want to bed tray . But still confused how / what point I try and fill the tray to wall touching edges with ct1 ( or silkaflex as you use ) . Understand this silicone application is the real water proofing and that the ‘nice white’ line of Mastik is simply the first line of defence against leaks 

[Pocster]

Understand with a corner tray - easy !

 

Also - still concerned about heights . Marine ply is about 3mm below the screed . Can fill gaps with floor tile adhesive . Before I apply floor membrane should I attempt to ‘skim’ ply up by 3mm ?

 

Also when finally bedding tray in sand/cement - how thick should that be ? Notched 10mm ? ( spell check kept trying to type ‘botched’ - obviously it’s well up on my skills ! ) 

[Nickfromwales]

I've never used sand and cement mix to bed a tray down, just couldn't think of any reason not to use a flexible tile adhesive TBH. Remember to clean the underside of the tray as it may have decoupling grease / silicones etc as a residue from the manufacturing process, and tile adhesive won't stick to that. Oh, yes........ in your instance I would stick it down with tile adhesive  

Get some of the tile adhesive and a sponge  / rag and make a paste to use like a cutting compound and scrub all the underside with it like as if it were Ajax. You'll see where it wouldn't stick, and when it then does stick, and then clean the worst of it back off ( unless you time this process with the overall laying of the tray ). Don't use your huge balls, switch to the iddy liddle ones and go with a standard or extended set adhesive so you have hours of 'play time' to get the tray scrubbed, buttered, substrate notched / blobbed, and the tray fitted to suit.

Your time starts...........................................................................................NOW!

[Pocster]

11 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

I've never used sand and cement mix to bed a tray down, just couldn't think of any reason not to use a flexible tile adhesive TBH. Remember to clean the underside of the tray as it may have decoupling grease / silicones etc as a residue from the manufacturing process, and tile adhesive won't stick to that. Oh, yes........ in your instance I would stick it down with tile adhesive  

Get some of the tile adhesive and a sponge  / rag and make a paste to use like a cutting compound and scrub all the underside with it like as if it were Ajax. You'll see where it wouldn't stick, and when it then does stick, and then clean the worst of it back off ( unless you time this process with the overall laying of the tray ). Don't use your huge balls, switch to the iddy liddle ones and go with a standard or extended set adhesive so you have hours of 'play time' to get the tray scrubbed, buttered, substrate notched / blobbed, and the tray fitted to suit.

Your time starts...........................................................................................NOW!

Ok ! Will go that route .

How thick should the adhesive be ? Notched ? . I need to know how much it will drop ? . Will it ‘shift’ / ‘sink’ overnight as it sets ????

Sorry , lots of questions - don’t want to get this wrong !!

[joe90]

With mine I put spacers under the corners so it could not drop too much.

[Nickfromwales]

12 minutes ago, joe90 said:

With mine I put spacers under the corners so it could not drop too much.

A dangerous game, as that can cause the tray to crack later down the line. There should be no single point of contact between the substrate and the tray.

[Pocster]

1 minute ago, Nickfromwales said:

A dangerous game, as that can cause the tray to crack later down the line. There should be no single point of contact between the substrate and the tray.

I’ll quickly unlike joe’s post !!

[Pocster]

There ; now it looks like I was clever - sorry @joe90

[Nickfromwales]

You won’t be setting the tray into notched adhesive, instead you’ll be resting it on piers of tile adhesive and just setting the tray down into those ( as the tray gets tapped / twisted south the adhesive will spread out and give much more coverage ). That will make life a lot easier if you insist on this being a one man job, and will give you quite a bit of play time to set it to the exact depth and level. 
After tapping down into place the tray will stay put, as long as the adhesive mix has no, or very little slump.

When mixing, you push a stick into the mix and withdraw it, and the peak of the adhesive left should stay. The peak may fold over under its own weight but the mix should not return to being flat in the bucket. 

[Pocster]

9 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

You won’t be setting the tray into notched adhesive, instead you’ll be resting it on piers of tile adhesive and just setting the tray down into those ( as the tray gets tapped / twisted south the adhesive will spread out and give much more coverage ). That will make life a lot easier if you insist on this being a one man job, and will give you quite a bit of play time to set it to the exact depth and level. 
After tapping down into place the tray will stay put, as long as the adhesive mix has no, or very little slump.

When mixing, you push a stick into the mix and withdraw it, and the peak of the adhesive left should stay. The peak may fold over under its own weight but the mix should not return to being flat in the bucket. 

Ok ! This is the smaller ensuite tray so not an issue on my own . So tile adhesive ‘peaks’ and tap down . Can’t twist it down as wall on 3 sides . This all sounds relatively easy enough ( presume I pva ply before doing this ) . So the silicone at the edges ( between tray and wall ) no choice but to spatula / force down once tray gone off ?

Edited August 11, 2020 by pocster

[Nickfromwales]

24 minutes ago, pocster said:

Ok ! This is the smaller ensuite tray so not an issue on my own . So tile adhesive ‘peaks’ and tap down . Can’t twist it down as wall on 3 sides . This all sounds relatively easy enough ( presume I pva ply before doing this ) . So the silicone at the edges ( between tray and wall ) no choice but to spatula / force down once tray gone off ?

I never use PVA as it will reconstitute with water. Flexible tile primer is the norm.

Yes, once in you can just jam the gun nozzle down the sides IF you have a gap to allow you to do so. Perhaps once the tray is 5mm or so away from its final resting place you could mask it up, nudge it far right and pump a load of sealant ( NOT SILICONE!!!! ) down the left side, then do vice versa, possibly the same bringing it forward so you can seal the rear, and then just centralise the tray and top up / wipe back sealant until it's all uniform and neat. 

[Pocster]

2 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

I never use PVA as it will reconstitute with water. Flexible tile primer is the norm.

Yes, once in you can just jam the gun nozzle down the sides IF you have a gap to allow you to do so. Perhaps once the tray is 5mm or so away from its final resting place you could mask it up, nudge it far right and pump a load of sealant ( NOT SILICONE!!!! ) down the left side, then do vice versa, possibly the same bringing it forward so you can seal the rear, and then just centralise the tray and top up / wipe back sealant until it's all uniform and neat. 

Ok. So straight flexible tile adhesive 'peaked blobs' ( I'll clean/check underside of tray so get good adhesion ) straight onto untreated marine ply

Any brand of sealant you would recommend for getting in down the side of the tray?. The alongest side of the tray I can certainly get a good load in and then slide into place. Lateral left/right movement not a lot of play (5mm if that)

[Nickfromwales]

Yup. Get the 'blobs' quite close to each other ( say 12 blobs for a 100mm x 1000mm tray for eg ) and you'll be good to go. 

 

5mm is all you will need. A sealant tube nozzle can be hammered flat and used like a knife to get the goop in. I would use clear CT1 every time, but EverBuild StixAll Crystal Clear is the same stuff if you can buy that cheaper.

[Pocster]

37 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Yup. Get the 'blobs' quite close to each other ( say 12 blobs for a 100mm x 1000mm tray for eg ) and you'll be good to go. 

 

5mm is all you will need. A sealant tube nozzle can be hammered flat and used like a knife to get the goop in. I would use clear CT1 every time, but EverBuild StixAll Crystal Clear is the same stuff if you can buy that cheaper.

Got ya !

so ct1 through flattened applicator head down all 3 sides !

Instead of talking about it I’ll get on with the tanking of all the joints first . Funeral today so talking about fitting a shower tray needed to cheer me up ?

[Nickfromwales]

?

[Pocster]

Back of tray doesn’t seem to have any coating or anything . Assume there’s actually nothing to do here ? I.e tile adhesive should stick to it ( but will test ! )

[Pocster]

Glued and screwed - that ain’t going anywhere! ??

[Pocster]

And I swept it ???

[Onoff]

1 hour ago, pocster said:

And I swept it ???

 

Vacuumed too?

[Onoff]

Page 1 here, @Nickfromwales is saying about rubbing with cement to get rid of any mould release agent: