Sliding door considerations, 2 or 3 door?

[Dan_the_man]

I am debating on if I should go for a 3 panel sliding door or a 2 panel sliding door. I am based in Northern Ireland so my door options are limited compared to the mainland.

 

The size of the opening the door has to fill is 2355 high by 4130 wide.

 

I had originally intended to purchase an aluminium Origin OS-44 sliding door with two panels but they cant make one to fit my large dimensions. The Origin OS-22 would fit my dimensions as a two panel but they do not ship that door to Northern Ireland. So I am left with going with a three panel in the Origin OS-44 if I want to go down the Origin route.

 

The issue is my extension is only two metres and the three panel has a frame which is 70mm deeper than the two frame version eating into my limited amount of internal space. I had originally planned for the door to be set back 100mm from the outside edge of the wall but I have been advised that I can place the sliding door right up to the edge to maximise as much space internally as possible. Will this dramatically effect the insulation properties of the door?

 

Apart of losing 70mm of internal space I also have the concern that the three panel door will ruin my views outside if I place my swivel chair near the door as I have to do due to my space constraints. My view will be considerably blocked by the window frame. On the two door slider this is a none issue with the required seat placement. On a sunny day if I opened the three door fully this would solve the frame issue I suppose.

 

I decided to look for an alternative two panel sliding aluminium door to fit my space requirements and I found Schueco ASE 60 sliding door which could be made to fit my space requirements in a two panel version. The depth of the frame is 73mm narrower than the OS-44 door.

 

The prices of my two Aluminium door choices including vat @ 20%:

 

Double glazed Schuco ASE60 Single Track Lift & Slide door - 1 Pane Sliding, 1 Pane fixed = £9,120 (Price includes fitting door)

Double glazed OS-44 sliding 3 door = £7,117.5 (Price includes fitting door)

 

I guess those prices are quite high. I am guessing if instead of aluminium I went with a uPVC sliding door instead it would work out significantly cheaper? But then I assume the lifespan of uPVC is a lot shorter than that of Aluminium?

 

I would appreciate what people would go for in my situation, 3 panel door or 2 panel door? And if those prices seem too high for an Aluminium sliding door and I should go down the uPVC route instead to save on costs?

 

 

Edited June 25, 2020 by Dan_the_man

[davidk]

I have a return aspect about that size on our planned extension going back to our house (fingers crossed we’ll be breaking ground next month). It’s 3950 wide x 2400 high, original plan was for a 3 panel slider but have now went with a 2 panel slider, less framework and better view. 
 

We’re based in Belfast and are using Carroll’s glass in Dundonald and using the SAPA/Confort 125 system. My builder has been doing the haggling on prices and has got me the following for £12,840 inc vat for supply and fit. 

 

6100x2400 - DG 3 panel slider

3950x2400 - DG 2 panel slider

846x2000 - DG kitchen window

[Dan_the_man]

2 hours ago, davidk said:

I have a return aspect about that size on our planned extension going back to our house (fingers crossed we’ll be breaking ground next month). It’s 3950 wide x 2400 high, original plan was for a 3 panel slider but have now went with a 2 panel slider, less framework and better view. 
 

We’re based in Belfast and are using Carroll’s glass in Dundonald and using the SAPA/Confort 125 system. My builder has been doing the haggling on prices and has got me the following for £12,840 inc vat for supply and fit. 

 

6100x2400 - DG 3 panel slider

3950x2400 - DG 2 panel slider

846x2000 - DG kitchen window

 

Thanks for the recommendation. I was looking at using Guardian glass with the Origin windows and doors. I assume Carroll's glass uses a different glass supplier?

 

I also assume Carrolls makes the doors themselves, the Origin doors are made in England in their own factory and they are shipped over which appeals due to quality control consistency. 

 

I was going to hold off on the project for a while to see if labour/parts costs come down any, I have been told they have increased due to Covid. I guess we will have brexit soon so worried prices for materials will shoot up.

[MJNewton]

Whilst not one of your options I thought I'd share what we did with a similar-sized opening (a bit smaller at 3.9m x 2.2m) even if just for you to firmly rule it out if it's not your cup of tea...

 

Our room will be a lounge area with a layout such that we only wanted/needed a centre (not side) opening thus a 2 panel slider wasn't really an option and a 3 panel would mean only a ~1.3m opening which we didn't feel was wide enough when compared to the UPVC french doors we had previously. Hence, we went for a 4 panel, with 2 centre openers,  thus given us a ~1.9m centre opening which, in practice, works really well for us and definitely feels wide, perhaps because it essentially represents half of the opening, the rest is glass so doesn't 'feel' closed as such and there's a natural thoroughfare through to the arch on the patio. I honestly don't think we'd want it wider based on the usage we've had so far.

 

 

The doors are Reynaers CP130-LS and we've been really pleased with them. They've got chunky frames compared to most and whilst if we'd had a bigger budget (these were £5.5k fitted) I suspect we would've sought thinner ones at the time I don't think I would now having lived with, and got used, to them. If anything we now see the chunkiness as part of the appearl nd they match the roof lantern frame well. I guess if we had an ocean view things would be different!

 

Incidentally, we were worried that as this is our (only) back door how they'd be day-to-day just for nipping in and out. Turns out to be a complete non-issue, perhaps helped by the fact that we don't have handles on the outside (only finger pulls) and so don't need to lock them on the inside so it's just a reasonably quick turn of the handle and go out. They've been better in many respects than a swinging door (e.g. on a bi-fold) as we can leave the door in an ajar position of any size (including a just-narrower-than-a-3yr-old width) without wind-induced slamming etc. I think our concerns must've stemmed from sliding patio doors of yesteryear but lift-and-slide are a completely different beast. So simple I'm surprised they haven't always been like this.

Edited June 25, 2020 by MJNewton

[Dan_the_man]

Your doors look lovely @MJNewton Unfortunately they would not suit my layout. My middle access is very restricted due to island/dining table and living furniture placement. I have to have the opening on the left or right.

[davidk]

@Dan_the_man yeah Carroll’s fabricate the frames themselves but unsure of the glass they use but whatever they do use we passed Part L of building regs along with other issues raised in SAP calculations. 
 

yeah costs have been crazy recently, our first 3 quotes were well over budget but found a very good builder that has worked with us to refine the design a bit to reduce costs without impacting the overall design of the scheme. 
 

we can only hope the rumoured VAT cut will materialise soon. ??? 
 

good luck with the build. 

[Dan_the_man]

3 hours ago, davidk said:

@Dan_the_man yeah Carroll’s fabricate the frames themselves but unsure of the glass they use but whatever they do use we passed Part L of building regs along with other issues raised in SAP calculations. 
 

yeah costs have been crazy recently, our first 3 quotes were well over budget but found a very good builder that has worked with us to refine the design a bit to reduce costs without impacting the overall design of the scheme. 
 

we can only hope the rumoured VAT cut will materialise soon. ??? 
 

good luck with the build. 

 

Glad you have found a good builder. I have went down the route where the architect project manages the build. She was charging 10% of build costs but it has now went up to 12% as she has had to become VAT registered. I guess from her point of view she would want me spending as much money on the build as possible due to her percentage cut.

 

She has the tender documents ready and will be getting quotes from three contractors she knows. I have told her to hold off on the quote until I start to see if labour costs reduce any due to the fact we are in a recession and have a 100 year event on our hands. Apparently labour costs have doubled in the past 5 years.

Edited June 26, 2020 by Dan_the_man

[davidk]

Spoke to our architect about 7 weeks ago when making the changes to our design because of our quotes being too high and he mentioned he had 3 jobs that he was having to re-tender because they all came in well over the clients budgets. 

[Dan_the_man]

17 hours ago, davidk said:

Spoke to our architect about 7 weeks ago when making the changes to our design because of our quotes being too high and he mentioned he had 3 jobs that he was having to re-tender because they all came in well over the clients budgets. 

 

When you say re-tender did that involve changing the design in anyway or just getting more quotes from contractors?

 

I wonder if prices are coming back so high because of the uncertainties of a no deal Brexit coming down the road and it's effects on material costs for NI, so they are pricing in this uncertainty from the beginning.

[Thorfun]

On 25/06/2020 at 21:08, MJNewton said:

The doors are Reynaers CP130-LS and we've been really pleased with them. They've got chunky frames compared to most and whilst if we'd had a bigger budget (these were £5.5k fitted) I suspect we would've sought thinner ones at the time I don't think I would now having lived with, and got used, to them. If anything we now see the chunkiness as part of the appearl nd they match the roof lantern frame well. I guess if we had an ocean view things would be different!

 

Hi @MJNewton. hope you don't mind me asking but who did you buy your CP130s from? Reynaers have just hit my radar as they do a corner opening slider solution that we're after. I'll be contacting a local supplier near me tomorrow but thought I'd ask for a personal recommendation (assuming you would recommend your supplier that is!)

[MJNewton]

No, I don't mind at all. We actually got them from a local conservatory supplier (KMC Vision) and whilst such a place wouldn't normally be my first port of call - particularly for something that isn't a conservatory(!) - they're located in a local garden centre with good displays and are fairly well known. Well known, at least, for the displays - we didn't know anyone that'd actually bought from them - but good displays never the less and I've always been a fan of such things in garden centres since I was a kid! (Seriously, I think that was actually a factor)

 

I also got a quote from Clearway Doors and Windows, another local(ish) supplier and they came in at a similar price but hadn't been selling these doors for as long as KMC. I also figured that if I had to stomp my feet with an issue afterwards then a busy Saturday afternoon at a garden centre would be a great place to do it rather than an industrial estate.

 

Details of both companies were given to me by Reynaers themselves, although they seemed to go to great lengths to distance themselves from their suppliers and point out they weren't 'recommendations' as such. I can understand where they were coming from, but it was a worry bead and almost put me off. If another company had taken the opposite approach and made a point that they only sell through trusted partners who are for all intents and purpose agents of theirs I may have jumped ship.

 

KMC were good in the end, a bit 'laddish' for my liking but then I find most tradesmen like that and just put it down to me being a soft office monkey.

 

P.S. I also found a supply-only place (in Bristol) which I *think* I would possibly consider if there was a next time. I'm sure we paid around a grand for installation and I'm sure I'd be able to do it myself. Lots of risk of course, but a grand is a grand! That said, they were here for 1.5 days and most of that seemed to be setting the things up - they couldn't have asked for a squarer hole to put them so no issues with the actual fitment.

Edited July 1, 2020 by MJNewton

[Thorfun]

8 minutes ago, MJNewton said:

No, I don't mind at all. We actually got them from a local conservatory supplier (KMC Vision) and whilst such a place wouldn't normally be my first port of call - particularly for something that isn't a conservatory(!) - they're located in a local garden centre with good displays and are fairly well known. Well known, at least, for the displays - we didn't know anyone that'd actually bought from them - but good displays never the less and I've always been a fan of such things in garden centres since I was a kid! (Seriously, I think that was actually a factor)

 

I also got a quote from Clearway Doors and Windows, another local(ish) supplier and they came in at a similar price but hadn't been selling these doors for as long as KMC. I also figured that if I had to stomp my feet with an issue afterwards then a busy Saturday afternoon at a garden centre would be a great place to do it rather than an industrial estate.

 

Details of both companies were given to me by Reynaers themselves, although they seem to go to great lengths to distance themselves from their suppliers and point out they are weren't 'recommendations' as such. I can understand where they were coming from, but it was a worry bead and almost put me off. If another company had taken the opposite approach and made a point that they only sell through trusted partners who are for all intents and purpose agents of theirs I may have jumped ship.

 

KMC were good in the end, a bit 'laddish' for my liking but then I find most tradesmen like that and just put it down to me being a soft office monkey.

 

P.S. I also found a supply-only place which I *think* I would possibly consider if there was a next time. Installation was around a grand I seem to recall and I'm sure I'd be able to do it myself. Lots of risk of course, but a grand is a grand!

thanks for the response. very interesting. I'll contact my local-ish supplier tomorrow and see what they say.