jfb Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 Situation is this - 300m track off the main road leads to a few houses. It is not under local authority control as an adopted highway. As far as I know it is an Inclosure Award Road which I think in effect makes it a private road owned jointly by those who own adjacent land. It is also a bridleway. In winter the road gets horrendous for driving down no matter how much filling of holes goes on. Some on the road have started prepping for tarmacing the road by scraping with a digger and putting edging all the way along. There is some local opposition to tarmacing the road mostly driven by opposition to recent development of a couple of traveller sites on the road. So there have been various visits from local planners and county council. County council roads/rural person has said that he won't object to laying tarmac but wants it to be done properly so there would only be a danger of ripping it all up if it isn't done well/drains well/etc. Local planner has warned those thinking of doing the work that it can't be done without planning permission. So work has stopped as those who want it tarmacced don't want to pay for it only for it to be ripped up. There has been talk of laying granite chips down instead but I can't see that doing any better than what is there now. My question is - is the local planner right that planning permission is needed? Scraping the existing stuff on the road also clearly shows evidence of previous tarmaccing of the road . The first short section is all tarmac and there are little islands of tarmac all the way down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 1 hour ago, jfb said: My question is - is the local planner right that planning permission is needed? Ask him on what grounds. I can only think he is referring to the legislation referring to paving front gardens. That requires PP if you don't deal with surface water running off on site (eg using soakaway). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 On 23/06/2020 at 10:42, jfb said: Some on the road have started prepping for tarmacing the road by scraping with a digger and putting edging all the way along. They may know what they are doing but the key to tarmac is making sure the base is prepared correctly. If that's not done right the tarmac will breakup. This might be why the previous tarmac failed years ago? If they are going to spend money it might be worth doing it to an adoptable standard. Adoption would make future repairs the council's responsibility. Even if it wasn't adopted the improved specification would reduce frequency of repairs. There is bound to be information on the prep required on the paving expert web site but the council will have specific requirements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dnb Posted June 23, 2020 Share Posted June 23, 2020 Sounds like one of those problems where seeking forgiveness might be best thing because there could be nobody who can give permission... (but please don't blame me when this strategy goes wrong. 9 times out of 10 it's OK, and the last 9 times were good for me!) Make sure the drains are done properly though. I have had a horrible time over the winter when one of my neighbours "reworked" (read as "filled in") the drains on his property causing a lot more surface water to flow on to my driveway. We had a telehandler sink nearly 18" into the driveway at one point because the clay had turned in to some kind of horrible soup under the gravel and cellweb in one spot causing several days of rework to put in a drain in an area where I shouldn't really have been digging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfb Posted June 26, 2020 Author Share Posted June 26, 2020 I managed to speak to the relevant local council planning person and he said that the key issue from a planning perspective was whether or not the works could be considered as involving 'engineering'. Quite what that means I don't know and he sounded a bit vague about it. Nor do I know where that bit of planning law comes from. I guess the amount of drainage considerations might come into it. With the correct camber water can be directed to the ditch on one side of the road but there are a couple of places where some drainage channels might be needed to get water away from house driveways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 Google suggests repairing or improving a road doesn't count as engineering operations or development. This provides references to the Town and County Planning Act but I've not checked them. My bold... https://www.lexisnexis.com/uk/lexispsl/planning/document/393788/5J6Y-V7J1-F18C-4292-00000-00/Is_planning_permission_required_ Engineering operations Engineering operations are not defined in the TCPA 1990, although s 336(1) expressly includes 'the formation or laying out of means of access to highways’, and excludes maintenance, improvement and repair works on/to roads, sewers, mains, pipes, cables or other apparatus etc. However, the TCPA 1990, s 55(2)(b) and (c) states that the carrying out of works for the maintenance or improvement of a road, or the carrying out by a local planning authority (LPA) of works relating to sewers, mains, pipes, cables or other apparatus etc, is excluded from development. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 (edited) I would JFDI unless there is a good reason not to. I think there is also the principle that people with a right of way can improve the surface, and that it is less than 30cm high, which excludes that reason for needing PP. I think the @Temp comment nails it. Edited June 26, 2020 by Ferdinand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 Think I would look up those references and quote them at the Planning officer. If he doesn't roll over you could hit him with an application for a Certificate of Lawful Development on the grounds PP isn't required and citing those references. Unlike a planning application a CLD should be issued based on law rather than opinion so neighbours don't get to raise objections to a CLD on the grounds of appearance. The down side is there is a fee for a CLD and if they say PP is required you would have to apply for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gridbuild Posted April 6, 2021 Share Posted April 6, 2021 Hi all I live on an unadopted road and we had to make it good ourselves. Tarmac was not an option without full drainage installed as the council said the run off on to the council owned lower section of road would be too big. In addition, PP was required for it. We ended up using a plastic grid and prepping the ground ourselves. One section has been down for 9 months and the other was put down last week. Seems to do the job and is a lot better than all the mud, rocks and potholes we had to contend with previously. No planning was required. The first section has had bin lorries, a 25 tonne crane and HGVs on it and it’s fine. Maybe worth a look for those in despair! I reckon it goes down for circa £25m2 if you do it yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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