Installing a watersoftener outdoors?

[joth]

Speaking with the Harvey's rep, it's perfectly possible to install their water-softener outdoors, so long as its in an insulated box of some sort. I think Kinetico are the same (as a prebuilt box is available)

 

Has anyone done this, and got feedback?

I can see a lot of benefits, especially given the alternative for us is putting it under the kitchen sink

- easy to plumb the flush pipe/overflow directly to a water butt, no airtightness penetration needed.

- outdoor tap can be connected direct from the softener, again no wall penetration

- easy to put the salt in: no need to bring salt into the house or install it in cramped under-sink location

- more room under the sink

- drinking water coming through the softener will be at a cooler (nicer to drink) temperature

- stop-cock etc would then be outside the house, so 100% sure we can cutoff the supply into the house in case of a leak

 

There's only a few downside: we do need an additional penetration to bring unsoftened water into the house, and of course being outdoors could perhaps have a detrimental effect on longevity - although if the manufacturer encourages this config it doesn't seem it could be terrible.

 

Interested in other pros/cons/thoughts.

 

[willbish]

I will be putting mine in an outside bin store.

There's plenty of space there and it will sit next to the accumulator.

The store is uninsulated but adjoins the house. I think it will be sheltered enough to protect from frost..

[arg]

38 minutes ago, joth said:

drinking water coming through the softener will be at a cooler (nicer to drink) temperature

 

Are you planning to drink the softened water?  I thought normal practice was to provide at least 1 tap of non-softened for drinking use.

 

 

[joth]

1 hour ago, arg said:

 

Are you planning to drink the softened water?  I thought normal practice was to provide at least 1 tap of non-softened for drinking use.

 

 

 

Yes, I preferrer softened for drinking, but we will also have unsoftened tap for those that prefer it (as I mentioned in cons: "we do need an additional penetration to bring unsoftened water into the house")

 

[joth]

Speaking to local Kinetico supplier, their normal approach (i.e. normally it's a retrofit) is to leave the supply and stop cock inside and tee off a loop to the external softener. They typically recommend this for a new build instal too, just because it's easy for people to understand and can easily decommission the softener leaving a very normal "indoor only" setup if desired.

Downside is 3 penetrations (mains into house, then 2 for the loop out to the softener and back in) but we save on having penetrations for the outdoor tap and the overflow drain to the outdoor water butt, so it's no worse than indoor.

 

[tonyshouse]

I kept my salt box outdoors for 15 yrs when it was separate, it did freeze and break the valve once though 

Edited June 12, 2020 by tonyshouse
Sp

[Nickfromwales]

The overflow is gravity, so won’t fill a water butt unless it’s lower than the softener. 
Outside is fine, even if you need to fit a frost stat and a small tubular heater to cover you for the depths of winter. MI’s will dictate that you make sufficient provision there.

You shouldn’t keep the salt outside as it’ll absorb moisture. Depends on how well sealed it’s is and if the packaging is kept completely intact. Just store that indoors IMO it’s no bother. 
The stopcock should only be indoors and easily accessible in accordance with BCO / regs for M - 4 part (2) ( iirc ) compliance. 
The softener will come with a bypass but not always with isolations. Nothing stopping you fitting more outside though. 

[joth]

1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said:

The overflow is gravity, so won’t fill a water butt unless it’s lower than the softener. 

My bad - I'd forgotten or never realised the flush drain and overflow were on different outlets (but it makes sense now I think about it). In this case we only want the drain going to the butt and the overflow can just spill  out of the box onto the patio somewhere obvious :-) [I'm assuming the overflow should only flow in very rare cases, i.e. if malfunctioning ] 

The drain can run 9m and climb 2.4m so that's no problem.

 

1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said:

Outside is fine, even if you need to fit a frost stat and a small tubular heater to cover you for the depths of winter. MI’s will dictate that you make sufficient provision there.

 

interestingly going with this plan, ours will be sited next to the ASHP... I'll keep it out of the 'blast line' of the fan as that could be very cold in depths of winter! I actually wondered if the ASHP feed/return pipes can be fed through & boxed in with the water-softener, as even though well-lagged any heat escaping from them will give a little natural frost protection for the softener.

 

1 hour ago, Nickfromwales said:

The stopcock should only be indoors and easily accessible in accordance with BCO / regs for M - 4 part (2) ( iirc ) compliance. 

got it. I checked again today and the main has already been fairly well buried in anyway, so I think the decision is pretty simple to just have the stop-cock under the sink and a feed-return loop out to the softener+ outdoor tap

 

Thanks all!