Deciding between SIPS & ICF

[Falesh]

I am having trouble deciding between SIPs and ICF for the walls of our planned house. The image below shows a possible layout, but please note that this is a work in progress and more an indication of our needs rather then a finalized plan. This house will be built in York in case my region has an impact. The main considerations are as follows:

 

Sound Proofing

 

The two bedrooms need to be very well soundproofed. The bedroom at the top right is going to be mine and I sleep till midday or later due to my disability. That means I need a very quiet room both from external and internal noise. My father will be having the other bedroom and would also like to have reasonable internal soundproofing so we can have our own guests and not disturb each other too much.

 

Durability

 

Because I am unable to work and my father is retired we need to make sure this house will last without needing costly repairs down the line. This is where my concern for SIPs comes in due to the possiblity of panel degredation. My other concern with regards to this is that SIPs seem reletivly new and I worry that local builders may not have the skills to build with SIPs in a way that promotes longevity.

 

Cost

 

Obviously cost is a big factor too. We will be selling our current house before we start the build so how quickly the house can be built once the money becomes availible will have an impact due to less time we need to rent. Any extra soundproofing that one system needs will have to be added to its cost.

 

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated!

 

[scottishjohn]

If sound is important then ICF with concrete would seem better than sips  --but ask suppliers for values

and maybe triple glazed asit looks like you have quite large window area in that bedroom?

are you self build or turn key --?

as you mention speed of build as being a factor -

the biggest thing that will hold the job up is YOU not getting spec correct to start with and asking for things to be changed

 again your chosen suppler /builder should be able to give accurate times 

sending plans to a couple of sips and ICF companies should give you prices and time scales if you are going to leave building to them 

Edited February 10, 2020 by scottishjohn

[K78]

I prefer ICF all day.
 

I can’t get my head around a house made of osb and eps sandwiches, with no frame. 

[SteamyTea]

Have you considered timber frame, or even block work.

Block work may be the safest route as it is well understood in all regions of the country.

[Falesh]

5 hours ago, scottishjohn said:

If sound is important then ICF with concrete would seem better than sips  --but ask suppliers for values

and maybe triple glazed asit looks like you have quite large window area in that bedroom?

are you self build or turn key --?

as you mention speed of build as being a factor -

the biggest thing that will hold the job up is YOU not getting spec correct to start with and asking for things to be changed

 again your chosen suppler /builder should be able to give accurate times 

sending plans to a couple of sips and ICF companies should give you prices and time scales if you are going to leave building to them 

 

Either turn key or my father will help as much as someone without specialist knowledge can without screwing things up. Painting, flooring and such like will probably be done by us.

 

4 hours ago, SteamyTea said:

Have you considered timber frame, or even block work.

Block work may be the safest route as it is well understood in all regions of the country.

 

The things that have drawn us to SIPs and ICF is the build speed but also the intrinsic air tightness of both systems. We would like to have a very energy efficient home to keep the upkeep down, maybe to the point of Passive House, but we are not wedded to that. The other great thing with air tightness is the soundproofing.

[SteamyTea]

3 minutes ago, Falesh said:

ICF is the build speed

Been keeping an eye on a couple of them down here.  Not fast.

Factory built timber frame is preferably the fastest, but as SIPs is really just timber frame with the insulation already fitted, should be just as quick.

 

[Falesh]

Just now, SteamyTea said:

Been keeping an eye on a couple of them down here.  Not fast.

Factory built timber frame is preferably the fastest, but as SIPs is really just timber frame with the insulation already fitted, should be just as quick.

 

 

Is factory built timber frame faster even considering how long it takes in the factory as well as any weather delays? I'm surprised you say ICF isn't fast, from what I have read one of the consistent plus points is that it is a, relatively, quick building system.

[scottishjohn]

1 hour ago, Falesh said:

 

Is factory built timber frame faster even considering how long it takes in the factory as well as any weather delays? I'm surprised you say ICF isn't fast, from what I have read one of the consistent plus points is that it is a, relatively, quick building system.

look here -- 

not slow considering its self build nearly 

speed is always going to be down to contractor--plenty of slow TF frame builds  on here

and TF will need lots more sound proofing

 

[SteamyTea]

8 hours ago, Falesh said:

Is factory built timber frame faster even considering how long it takes in the factory as well as any weather delays?

Just depends on what your chosen supplier can deliver.  The TF factory near me knocks out about 70 houses a week I believe.  And about a couple of days to erect on site.

Seems the internal fitting out is the slow bit, but that is similar to any other house.

8 hours ago, Falesh said:

I'm surprised you say ICF isn't fast

Just what I have seen on the two that are local to me.  One was done by the owner, just about finished 2 1/2 years after he started.  The other is a lot bigger, and is now 18 months since the ground works started, and only just had the roof trusses lifted into place in the last week.

[PeterW]

Firstly I’m not sure about that layout as it’s not easy to see where the main entrance is, and having bedrooms off kitchens isn’t ideal. 
 

It is also a large galley kitchen for what is a very small house - do you have planning permission yet ..? Adding some sort of circulation space may reduce your costs here if you make it squarer than it is now. 
 

For sound, it depends where you are and the sound levels. Timber frame with pumped cellulose is very good at stopping sound from external sources, coupled with decent triple or acoustic glazing and you will have warmth and sound reduction. 
 

Internally you can “airlock” pairs of doors so you don’t get sound travelling through a single door, but that all relies on the doors being closed !! Having them at 90 degrees to each other also helps, as does a soft panel / material to absorb sound in a corridor. 
 

 

[Eileen]

We went with 4Wall engineered SIPS panels from Tribus - they are a bit more high tech (and more expensive) than timber framed panels, but we have ended up with a certified Passivhaus and they were a big part of that. Project Etopia is using the same system as part of their "turn-key house" system.

[SteamyTea]

28 minutes ago, Eileen said:

We went with 4Wall engineered SIPS panels from Tribus - they are a bit more high tech

What makes them high tech?

[Eileen]

That's what they say, so I should have put quotes round it!!! There's a light steel frame, magnesium oxide boards on the outside and then the whole thing filled with polyurethane.
 

Edited February 12, 2020 by Eileen
Missed a word