ASHP + UFH quote

[Zurg]

Hi

 

ASHP - £6396 exl VAT

UFH - £2969 exl VAT

 

I'm renovating a 45sqm, 1 bed ground floor, Victorian mid-terrace, off-gas. I am hoping to replace old storage heaters and installing UFH throughout the property with an ASHP.

Heat loss calc - I only have the supplier's calculation as below - it's a old building so not sure on wall U-values - stone walls approx 0.4m thick for the external - might be similar for the party walls but not 100% sure! 

Heating SCoP:	3.18	Based on regional weather data in line with MIS 3005
Hot water SCoP:	2.88
Total building heat requirement:	11617.0	kWh based on: 45 m²
Heat output by heat pump:	14183.0	kWh for heating and hot water
Electricity required to power heat pump:	4907.0	kWh
Backup electricity:	71	kWh
Free energy from Heat Pump:	9276.0	kWh
Hot water cylinder re-heat time:	123 314	minutes (typical) minutes (max)
Heat Pump MCS Certificate No.	MCS HP0003/48

 

Living in Scotland so hoping to qualify for HES Loan to cover install, RHI payments ~£4,500 based on government calculator.

 

Currently have suspended timber floor so installing UFH between joists.

 

I received this quote from NuHeat but without them visiting the property. I have had 2 visits from different installers who are due to send their quote next week, but I was wondering if anyone wouldn't mind casting their eye over this quote and if - I feel it's more expensive than it should be, considering it is not including install - but perhaps I am deluding myself ?

 

Let  me know if any other info is helpful, too.

 

Thanks!

 

 

ASHP - £6396 exl VAT

1	NIBE F2040-6 (typically capable of heating a property with 4.5kW heat loss at design operating conditions, in compliance with MCS standards) air source heat pump kit, charge pump, and associated fittings.
1	Docking assembly for air source heat pump with Nu-Heat hot water cylinder, buffer tank and supplementary electric heating
1	EnergyPro® 200 litre unvented stainless steel HP cylinder for use with NIBE ASHP, including fittings and G3 kit. (Please note that the cylinder warranty does not cover private water supplies, e.g. boreholes. Please speak to your Account Manager if this required.)
1	100 litre (stackable type C) buffer tank assembly with four tappings and one immersion tapping, with immersion heater
1	Electric metering kit for one single phase heat pump and two additional immersion heaters
1	Includes delivery of heat pump and tank by carrier to UK mainland only
1	On-site support package, as detailed in your Quote Summary

 

UFH - £2969 exl VAT

1	Wilo Para SC7 pump (EuP compliant) with valves
1	Isolator pack for Optiflo manifolds
1	System expansion vessel
1	6-port Optiflo manifold module with zone valves, flow meters, isolating valves, temperature gauges, pressure gauge and wiring centre - view details
4	Dial thermostat - view details
1	Dial thermostat and remote sensor for wet rooms
390	Metres of 14mm Fastflo® heating tube with oxygen diffusion barrier - view details
12	14mm x 2mm Eurofitting nut, tail & olive and pipe bend support
43	m² DPJK14 floor components - 25mm tracked polystyrene panels with heat transfer plates and pipe staples. For use with Knauf BrioDec (by others)
1	Commissioning accessories pack
1	Design specification, manuals and documentation - view details
1	Delivery to UK mainland only following receipt of full payment and acceptance of CAD drawings.

 

Edited February 7, 2020 by Zurg

[stephen margerison]

If you are doing a complete refurb I would seriously look at insulating the walls, if you have no damp walls, you can fix the insulation directly to the wall, if its a bit damp use recycled plastic battons, so no damp transfer. underfloor heating is a very low heat, so you need to keep in all heat possible . without insulating the walls I believe you may well find you still have a cold house. sorry ! 

look up AA insulation Pontypridd they sell "seconds",  I have bought from them, and only fault is a small crease down the insulation, so nothing !! get it with foil on both sides.

regards,

Stephen

[Zurg]

Thanks Stephen.

 

Space is quite a premium in this small flat and so insulation is quite tricky. We are in a conservation area and not allowed any EWI (and probably wouldn't want to, aesthetically... )

 

Not real science, of course, but I am surprised at how warm the property is. There's been no heating in the property all winter and we've been working away in it the last week - not really needing any heat although it has been a bit warm in our part of Scotland recently, and we're stripping wallpaper rather than just sitting about! Its location means it's very sheltered from the wind and I do think we benefit from heated properties around us. Certainly much warmer than our current tenement flat that is roughly the same size.

 

I will definitely have a look at your link though - perhaps some seconds aerogel insulation might be the answer?! 

 

Could insulation bring down the cost of this ASHP, though? I appreciate running costs would be lower but I think we are getting the smallest model available anyway?

 

Thanks!

Edited February 10, 2020 by Zurg

[joth]

2 hours ago, Zurg said:

Could insulation bring down the cost of this ASHP, though? I appreciate running costs would be lower but I think we are getting the smallest model available anyway?

 

 

Surprisingly, better insulation can put the effective price up: if it improves your EPC it will reduce the RHI payments. (At least, that's how it rolls in England)

 

[SteamyTea]

What sort of floor do you have, and how are they going to insulate it to stop energy leaking though the ground/outside air.

 

Have you considered Air to Air heat pumps.

 

And do you know how much you use with your current heating system.

[Ferdinand]

18 hours ago, joth said:

 

Surprisingly, better insulation can put the effective price up: if it improves your EPC it will reduce the RHI payments. (At least, that's how it rolls in England)

 

 

This is true. RHI grant relates to the before-after improvement.

 

However you make sure you do your "before" EPC (ie pay £50 for an extra one) just before you put the extra insulation in and do your works, and then make sure you don't bust the allowed timescale, which iirc I think is generous.

 

I believe you get 2 years (ie before EPC can be 2 years old), but DYOR.

Edited February 8, 2020 by Ferdinand

[Ferdinand]

I agree this is tight, but otoh you only need insulation on one or two walls in each room, so something like Insulated Plasterboard with 50 or 60mm of Celotex incorporated will only cost about 3 inches in one dimension - the long dimension ? - and give you virtually  modern standards.

 

I think the  plan is the right way round - lounge sun in the evenings, bedroom in the mornings. 

 

I think that knocking through kitchen to lounge would be a very beneficial and perhaps not very expensive (probably) thing to do.

 

I think a possible big advantage you have is being the northern half of the semi, which will reduce potential temperature swings summer to winter - especially during short intense heatwaves. A downside is that you may be a little starved of sun, so I would think about a seating area outside in a sunny corner of the yard if you have one. In my experience people prefer the Northern half.

 

Remember ventilation as well as insulation.

 

Best of luck.

 

Ferdinand

 

 

 

 

Edited February 8, 2020 by Ferdinand

[Zurg]

Thank you for your replies, really appreciate all your advice. We will look further at wall insulation.

 

The floor will be insulated with Kingspan at 100mm between the joists, the UFH pipework and screed. 

 

We've not moved into the property - just spending our evenings/weekends there - so don't know about the current heating system demand for the home.

 

Is the quote roughly what you'd expect a heat pump and UFH to cost, then? If ASHP works out too expensive to install, we will upgrade the storage heaters instead.

 

Yes - purchased the flat exactly for its outdoor space - sunny mornings in the private (for a city, anyway) back of the property and there's a garden in the front for the evening sun, too.

 

And yes - understood more insulation would decrease potential income but not the running costs! We still have the EPC from the purchase that will last us for application.

 

Thanks, everyone.

Edited February 10, 2020 by Zurg