Moonshine Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 My architect incorrectly put the wrong m2 area in the CIL form when it was submitted, and the CIL amount has been calculated based on this incorrect figure. How likely / easy is it for the council to review their CIL calculation based on a revised form/information of m2. The revision makes a difference of about £16k in CIL so its obviously something that i need to get sorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 Yikes. The legislation allows you to request a review in writing (with justification) within 28 days of the liability notice being issued but before work starts. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukdsi/2010/9780111492390/regulation/113 Council web sites imply this is if the council makes an error but I do not see that limitation in the legislation so I would go for it. If still wrong you can appeal to the VOA but must wait for the result from the VOA before starting work or your appeal fails. Only other thing I can think of is to submit a new planning application. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted January 15, 2020 Author Share Posted January 15, 2020 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Temp said: within 28 days of the liability notice being issued but before work starts. Only other thing I can think of is to submit a new planning application. now out of the 28 days period. Interestingly the CIL notice was issued to me, not to my architect my agent, so he never was able to check the amount. Still in the year period of the decision notice, so if that is what has to be done then it would have to be it. Edited January 15, 2020 by Moonshine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newhome Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 Are you applying for a CIL exemption or expecting to pay it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted January 15, 2020 Share Posted January 15, 2020 Sorry I have a hard time keeping up with everyone's projects.. Have you started work? If not I suspect you need to get this sorted before you do. I guess you don't qualify for the self build exemption? What does the Architect propose to do about his mistake? I'm thinking you might end up claiming against him or his insurance company for his error. Might be best to get legal advice before you try and resolve it yourself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted January 15, 2020 Author Share Posted January 15, 2020 19 minutes ago, newhome said: Are you applying for a CIL exemption or expecting to pay it? exception on one of the two houses proposed 17 minutes ago, Temp said: Have you started work? If not I suspect you need to get this sorted before you do. I guess you don't qualify for the self build exemption? What does the Architect propose to do about his mistake? I'm thinking you might end up claiming against him or his insurance company for his error. Might be best to get legal advice before you try and resolve it yourself? no work started and pre-commencement conditions not applied for discharge, i could apply for exception on one of the two proposed plots. I have highlighted this to the architect and politely stated his error and for him to get it sorted, speaking to him he is going to get in contact with the council. Hopefully the legal route is not required, and can get sorted by other means 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stephen margerison Posted January 25, 2020 Share Posted January 25, 2020 Interesting, sounds like you have a site for more than 1 house, (like me) my council charges £85 per sq mtr for CIL times 1.85% for next years inflation. total for 4 houses is £94,000 my personal house is circa £30,000 cil . This I can get exempted. However the council have informed me that a "charge" will be put against the land until the whole of the outstanding CIL has been paid . Also ANY start on ANY part of the site means cil becomes liable, so I cannot start my own house, until I resolve the cil problem, ( I have put the other 3 plots up for sale as self build plots) This is a subject that is NOT to be ignored !! councils are trying every trick to catch builders out and make you PAY so be very careful !! ps if the council put a charge on the land, you cannot raise money, as a lender would have no collateral !! regards, Stephen 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted February 24, 2020 Author Share Posted February 24, 2020 On 25/01/2020 at 14:53, stephen margerison said: Interesting, sounds like you have a site for more than 1 house, (like me) my council charges £85 per sq mtr for CIL times 1.85% for next years inflation. total for 4 houses is £94,000 my personal house is circa £30,000 cil . This I can get exempted. However the council have informed me that a "charge" will be put against the land until the whole of the outstanding CIL has been paid . Also ANY start on ANY part of the site means cil becomes liable, so I cannot start my own house, until I resolve the cil problem. This is exactly it, and it's for two houses, one is CIL excempt as we will move into it, but we have the very real factor, to build it we need to pay the CIL for the other one even though we won't be building it straight away. I am looking for a way I can apply for the two houses as separate planning applications, one that doesn't get started, but don't think that will fly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted February 24, 2020 Author Share Posted February 24, 2020 Good news, the council have issued a revised CIL liability letter for the amount I was expecting. Still a WTF letter, but better that it was! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 Splitting the title is not that expensive. Though I am not sure of the PP implications. F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 (edited) On 25/01/2020 at 14:53, stephen margerison said: Also ANY start on ANY part of the site means cil becomes liable, so I cannot start my own house, until I resolve the cil problem, ( I have put the other 3 plots up for sale as self build plots) Think I would write to the council asking them if they can treat each plot separately without you having to make four separate new planning applications. Some counties allow staged payments, others insist that's only possible if a staged development was part of the planning permission. Edited February 24, 2020 by Temp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted February 24, 2020 Share Posted February 24, 2020 (edited) Looks like things changed back in 2014.. https://www.clarkewillmott.com/news/the-2014-cil-amendment-regulations/ Quote Phased Development The ability to apply CIL to each phase of a development as it comes forward has now been extended to full planning permissions. However, for this to be the case, the planning permission, whether outline or full, must make it clear that the permission is phased. The triggering of liability when all pre-commencement planning conditions are satisfied will now only apply to phased full and outline permissions, provided in the case of phased outline permissions that this occurs before the approval of all reserved matters and it has been agreed in writing beforehand. For all other outline planning permissions, the trigger for CIL liability will be approval of the last reserved matter for the development or the phase. For non-phased full planning permissions, the trigger will now be the grant of the planning permission. Edited February 24, 2020 by Temp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted February 25, 2020 Author Share Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) 14 hours ago, Temp said: For all other outline planning permissions, the trigger for CIL liability will be approval of the last reserved matter for the development or the phase. For non-phased full planning permissions, the trigger will now be the grant of the planning permission. interesting, so if i did go back in to planning (there are some tweaks that may need doing) and state that it was going to be a phased development then i could get out of paying CIL on the house i wasn't building yet, but the planning for all houses is enacted. Edit: i have just spoken to and e-mailed the council if i can split the CIL liabilities as per the existing planning permission, lets see what happens, not hopeful but best to try. Edited February 25, 2020 by Moonshine 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) I guess it might be possible to amend your PP to make it a phased development. I'm not 100% sure that making it phased would be enough. It would allow phased payments but not sure if they still count as one CIL. That might make your exemption a problem. Hopefully the council will understand what you are doing and see sense. Perhaps they would accept an amendment simply stating the grant should be considered to be for 4 separate houses each of which can be separately constructed with any conditions applying separately to each house? I think others in your position should put some words in the planning application that states the intention is for the development to be split and plots sold separately, perhaps even requesting separate CIL calculations. This sort of thing would probably go in the front of the Design and Access Statement. Edited February 25, 2020 by Temp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted February 25, 2020 Author Share Posted February 25, 2020 1 minute ago, Temp said: Hopefully the council will understand what you are doing and see sense. The planning officer has been pretty good (if slow) so it may happen, but...... i wouldn't be surprised if it didn't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted March 2, 2020 Author Share Posted March 2, 2020 So the council have said no, which wasn't a surprise, and very timely the high court has just rules on CIL payments as attached. Quote The judge found that. having assumed responsibility to pay ClL. the company became liable to pay the whole sum demanded by the council on the date when the development commenced. As at that date. the chargeable development was the development permitted by the March 2016 outline planning consent which was not a phased permission. It was the commencement of the development, rather than the issue of the liability notice that gave rise to the liability to pay CIL the judge ruled. A non-material change to the permission approved by the council in February 2019 could not affect that conclusion as it post-dated commencement of the project. So moral of the storey get the permission changed and approved as a phased development before any commencement. It looks like i am going to try and have to get my permission changed to a phased development (if possible) CIL_high_court_-_oval_developments.pdf 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferdinand Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Moonshine said: So the council have said no, which wasn't a surprise, and very timely the high court has just rules on CIL payments as attached. So moral of the storey get the permission changed and approved as a phased development before any commencement. It looks like i am going to try and have to get my permission changed to a phased development (if possible) CIL_high_court_-_oval_developments.pdf 2.25 MB · 1 download You need to be sure that changing the existing permission will change the CIL liability. It may be you need a new permission (potentially). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshine Posted March 2, 2020 Author Share Posted March 2, 2020 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Ferdinand said: You need to be sure that changing the existing permission will change the CIL liability. It may be you need a new permission (potentially). My reading of the article / High court judgement was that the non-material change to the permission would have done it, and it was approved by the council but came too late as works have already commenced. this article came from a planner i know who knows the issue with my site, and their view is a re-submission or a Section 73 application for a phased development would change the CIL, worth finding out more i though. He suggested that a Section 96A non-material amendment may not be the best route, but also that a section 96A has no right of appeal where as the other routes do. Edited March 2, 2020 by Moonshine 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Temp Posted March 2, 2020 Share Posted March 2, 2020 (edited) Think I would try submitting four separate planning applications identical to your existing PP. I know there would be fees but at least it would be clear. Edit: When you submit your commencement notice for your self build make 100% sure to quote the right planning reference! Edited March 2, 2020 by Temp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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