In at the deep end

[Mally]

Hi,

 

I'm so excited to say hello, as I am just about to embark upon the self build journey. I'm totally green, I've read the theory and now need to learn the reality of it all.

 

My idea of a plot location is Argyle and Bute and the North West Coast of Scotland. I've not approached any owners yet, I'm considering what is available. Currently, my thoughts are a 1.5 floor timber frame with either air source or ground source heating.

 

At this stage I'm wondering if I need a Project Manager? I have read and have been told that:

• They may be able to help me negotiate the price of a plot.
• They may be able to advise me to steer clear of a plot.
• They would have a ballpark idea on the cost of bringing in services.

 

Many thanks for reading my first post. If you have any tips, books, or helpful guidance, I'd be very grateful.

 

Chris

[Thedreamer]

Welcome, @Mally

 

Amazon - Homebuilders bible, read back to back, gives you a grounding in all areas. 

 

Check out the blogs here, all different.

 

Pitfalls of a plot more suited to the Highlands,

 

Local development plans, does the plot fall with in?

Services, you need a plot in mind before you can even answer that. Electricity is the worse, don't assume any thing until you have quote from SSE

Access roads can be expensive - if you obtain a large enough plot you might have access to 'rotten rock'.

Avoid plots that have peaty ground or lots of bedrock.

If you are buying a croft, this has loads of considerations in it's own right.

 

Our build is a 1.5 timber frame on our croft on Skye.

 

 

 

 

Edited November 1, 2019 by Thedreamer

[ProDave]

Hi and welcome.

 

There are usually lots of plots to choose from up here,  I am not sure if this link will work as it is the results of doing a "map search" https://www.hspc.co.uk/search.asp?searchtype=form

 

If not just start from scratch on their search form.

 

Are you local to the area, or like me when we first moved here, buying a plot from 500 miles away?

[Mally]

Hi @ProDave,

 

Thanks for the link, I very much appreciate it. I'm based in Glasgow right now, Im originally from the East Coast of Scotland.

 

I have always loved the West Coast of Scotland and the Highlands. I came very close to buying my dream home recently, it fell through, though. I found it pretty tough traveling 400 mile round trips to view houses, I cant imagine doing 1,000. You wouldn't want to do that too often.

 

All the houses I looked at needed good hard earned cash to update and none even grabbed my heart. Then some one I know suggested Self Building and here I am. 

Edited November 1, 2019 by Mally

[Mally]

Hi @Thedreamer,

 

Thanks so much for the tips. I've read Barry Sutcliffe's Self Build Simplified, I thought it was really informative. I was also really lucky to catch this years Self Build and Renovating show in Edinburgh. I see Matt Brinkleys book has a new edition out, It looks great.

Do you enjoy living on Skye ? Has the croft been in your family for generations ? Your Home looks amazing, Did you face additional costs because of your remote location ?

 

I've being meandering through the local planning portal for Argyle and Bute, fishing for information on plots.

 

I'm really looking forward to reading your blog.

[ProDave]

I don't know why but when I searched earlier for plots I could find none for sale in Argyle & Bute.  There are several further up the coast though.

 

We are just north of Inverness, chosen for dryer climate, less midges and more employment opportunities, but we can be on the west coast in just over an hour.  It only took us 2 trips up with the touring caravan to find our first plot stopping 2 weeks each time. Have been here 17 years now.

[Mally]

Less midges, thats got to be a great tip. And of course less rain, we could all do with that. I've just seen the link to your blog, More inspiration  

[Thedreamer]

2 hours ago, Mally said:

Hi @Thedreamer,

 

Thanks so much for the tips. I've read Barry Sutcliffe's Self Build Simplified, I thought it was really informative. I was also really lucky to catch this years Self Build and Renovating show in Edinburgh. I see Matt Brinkleys book has a new edition out, It looks great.

Do you enjoy living on Skye ? Has the croft been in your family for generations ? Your Home looks amazing, Did you face additional costs because of your remote location ?

 

I've being meandering through the local planning portal for Argyle and Bute, fishing for information on plots.

 

I'm really looking forward to reading your blog.

 

The local agents here.

 

https://www.iosea.co.uk/

https://www.remax-skye.net/

http://www.skyepropertycentre.uk/

 

These were not for me but these are quite popular here and provide a build that requires limited time on project managing.

 

https://www.ruralhouse.co.uk/

 

My wife is from Skye and we moved here after we finished uni in 2008 and yes it's a family croft going back generations. We have around 40 ewes and an area of woodland. Our build is partly financed by a croft house grant.

 

Skye is popular with tourists and the extra costs we faced were principally from putting the house plot on that part of the croft (partly because we wanted privacy, views, shelter and knowing nobody could develop around us). The site cost a nominal £100 but we had to spend about £20,000 to make it a serviced plot (210 meter access, a longish electricity and water connection and to level it off as it was on a slope).

 

That's good on the books and the shows. There is so much to learn.

 

On the project manager front, we have surveyor that does four or five inspections during the build and he produces certificates principally to report to our lender. Day to day project management is done by me, whilst working full time! I live about 200 meters away and go to the house in the morning, speak with contractors, first thing, usually spend my lunch hour researching, ordering or speaking with suppliers, I then do a further check in the evening on the day's progress. Sometime it can be busy and often a few weeks can go by with little activity.

 

[ykhan16]

4 hours ago, ProDave said:

I don't know why but when I searched earlier for plots I could find none for sale in Argyle & Bute.  There are several further up the coast though.

 

We are just north of Inverness, chosen for dryer climate, less midges and more employment opportunities, but we can be on the west coast in just over an hour.  It only took us 2 trips up with the touring caravan to find our first plot stopping 2 weeks each time. Have been here 17 years now.

 

I was up round there a few months ago. Honestly its such a lovely place- shame its 400 miles away! :0

 

1 hour ago, Thedreamer said:

 

On the project manager front, we have surveyor that does four or five inspections during the build and he produces certificates principally to report to our lender. Day to day project management is done by me, whilst working full time! I live about 200 meters away and go to the house in the morning, speak with contractors, first thing, usually spend my lunch hour researching, ordering or speaking with suppliers, I then do a further check in the evening on the day's progress. Sometime it can be busy and often a few weeks can go by with little activity.

 

 

@Thedreamer You sound ever so organised- did you get any guidance on this side of things? Someone today suggested that I should go on the project management course run by the NSBRC (https://www.nsbrc.co.uk/the-nsbrc-guide-to-project-management/). Do you think its worth it? Or does anyone know someone who's been on it and what their thoughts were? Its £165 but if its going to prepare me well then the cost should pay for itself I would have thought.

[Mally]

3 hours ago, ykhan16 said:

 

I was up round there a few months ago. Honestly its such a lovely place- shame its 400 miles away! :0

 

 

@Thedreamer You sound ever so organised- did you get any guidance on this side of things? Someone today suggested that I should go on the project management course run by the NSBRC (https://www.nsbrc.co.uk/the-nsbrc-guide-to-project-management/). Do you think its worth it? Or does anyone know someone who's been on it and what their thoughts were? Its £165 but if its going to prepare me well then the cost should pay for itself I would have thought.

 

8 hours ago, ProDave said:

I don't know why but when I searched earlier for plots I could find none for sale in Argyle & Bute.  There are several further up the coast though.

I have a list of a few plots, but they all seem to have been lying around for years. There seems to be a lot of fine views through trees which have a high probability of being on neighbouring land. 

[Mally]

4 hours ago, ykhan16 said:

 

I was up round there a few months ago. Honestly its such a lovely place- shame its 400 miles away! :0

6 hours ago, Thedreamer said:

 

The local agents here.

 

https://www.iosea.co.uk/

https://www.remax-skye.net/

http://www.skyepropertycentre.uk/

 

These were not for me but these are quite popular here and provide a build that requires limited time on project managing.

 

https://www.ruralhouse.co.uk/

 

My wife is from Skye and we moved here after we finished uni in 2008 and yes it's a family croft going back generations. We have around 40 ewes and an area of woodland. Our build is partly financed by a croft house grant.

 

Skye is popular with tourists and the extra costs we faced were principally from putting the house plot on that part of the croft (partly because we wanted privacy, views, shelter and knowing nobody could develop around us). The site cost a nominal £100 but we had to spend about £20,000 to make it a serviced plot (210 meter access, a longish electricity and water connection and to level it off as it was on a slope).

In the grand scheme of it 20k doesn't sound too much, considering the end result. Did it feel like a leap of faith at the outset ? I was thinking of a kit frame. Did you use the stick method, because of your location, or did you prefer it ? 

 

You have made it all look very doable, a real masterclass, I believe. I love your roof tiles and the larch cladding.

[Jeremy Harris]

One thing I found over a period of around 2 years spent plot hunting (over a pretty wide area) was that all my initial ideas about build methods and materials went out of the window, as so much depended on the nature of any particular plot.  We ended up with a timber frame, but that was a million miles away from my initial thoughts when we first started seriously thinking about self-build.

 

The sort of considerations we had to take into account ranged from the ground conditions (one plot we seriously considered would have needed something like screw piles to make any economic sense) through to fairly restrictive planning rules (being in a conservation area, area of outstanding natural beauty, adjacent to a listed building, etc).  Although you can probably make a timber frame build fit in with most planning or site constraints, it may be that building using other methods makes more sense in some locations.  For example, the conservation officer here was insistent that we build the house from Chilmark stone.  As this was very expensive (the quarry only opens for special orders) I found some historical evidence that previous buildings on the site (which stood there for around 100 years or so) were timber clad, and also provided evidence that several of the nearby houses, including the listed building opposite, were partially, or wholly, timber clad, so this was in keeping with the local vernacular.  The CO and planning officer were fine with this, so that then led to us considering timber frame.  You can certainly win arguments with planners, I found, as long as you read and understand the policies that apply.  A reasoned argument as to why you should do something, showing that it's compliant with policy, is hard for them to argue against.  It doesn't automatically lift all the possible constraints, though, hence my view that the plot really plays an important part in the design, and perhaps construction, of any house.

[Thedreamer]

@ykhan16 Nope, just tried to learn as much as possible before starting and then gained experience during the build. £165 seems cheap for a course, even if it just gives you a general overview of a number of areas. I did business management at uni and my day job is working as a chartered accountant so prehaps some skills have brushed off onto the build.

 

@Mally, thanks I tried to spend as much as I could on the fabric of the house.  

 

We started outline planning process when we were 22, we saved and saved and then about 4-5 years ago we put in the services and made it into a plot. Until we dug our foundations it wasn't really a risk as we could have still sold the plot if our plans dramatically changed. Once we were at foundation stage I had a good idea of how long I wanted the build to go on for and finance was in place. It kind of been a phased build with lot of thinking time. I've never owned a property before so we will feel extra proud that our first home is our home.

 

One of the benefits of a kit home, is that it all goes up in a week or so, that's good if you want to get wind and watertight as soon as possible. I planned for the house to go up during July/August and had glorious weather so the time in cutting and constructing wasn't as important if we were building in winter.

 

Stick building allowed us to build bespoke house and it was much cheaper. I spend many an evening deconstructing the structural engineer plans to order every length of timber, nail etc my thinking being that I could save money before we started and this also gave me some satisfaction that I have been more involved in the building of the house. 

 

[Mally]

2 hours ago, JSHarris said:

One thing I found over a period of around 2 years spent plot hunting (over a pretty wide area) was that all my initial ideas about build methods and materials went out of the window, as so much depended on the nature of any particular plot.  We ended up with a timber frame, but that was a million miles away from my initial thoughts when we first started seriously thinking about self-build.

 

I can believe that. 

[Mally]

2 hours ago, Thedreamer said:

Stick building allowed us to build bespoke house and it was much cheaper.

Thats very appealing, it doesn't seem overly right to line someone else's pockets too deeply, when most of the creativity is supplied by the client.

[Mally]

2 hours ago, Thedreamer said:

I've never owned a property before so we will feel extra proud that our first home is our home.

Yeah, that must feel very satisfying. 

[Jeremy Harris]

9 minutes ago, Mally said:

Thats very appealing, it doesn't seem overly right to line someone else's pockets too deeply, when most of the creativity is supplied by the client.

 

Several of us here of of much the same mindset, try not to line the pockets of too many people who advocate that you "must" use their (often expensive) services in order to be able to self-build.  Time spent researching, learning about planning policies, building regulations, legal and other issues around plot purchase, as well as construction techniques and options, can save a fair bit of cash.

 

Because most self-builds are a single home, the added cost of some professional services can make the difference between the home being affordable or not.  There are certainly some builds where professional services are needed, but equally there are many where they aren't, as long as your prepared to learn and have access to the resources needed to help.  One of the objectives of this forum, perhaps it's primary objective, was to provide a support network, where information could be freely shared, so that self-builders and renovators might feel more able to do more of the work needed themselves.  The cost savings by doing this can be significant.  For example, we ended up (not by choice) not using an architect or planning consultant.  This cost saving more than paid for our solid oak kitchen with Silestone surfaces and all the fitted appliances.  Not a saving to be sneezed at for a few hundred hours spent doing some research.

[Mally]

13 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

This cost saving more than paid for our solid oak kitchen with Silestone surfaces and all the fitted appliances.  Not a saving to be sneezed at for a few hundred hours spent doing some research.

Good job. Best hope my other half does not spot this "solid oak kitchen with Silestone surfaces and all the fitted appliances", otherwise, the words "when" and "kitchen" may haunt me for a year or three.

[Jeremy Harris]

3 minutes ago, Mally said:

Good job. Best hope my other half does not spot this "solid oak kitchen with Silestone surfaces and all the fitted appliances", otherwise, the words "when" and "kitchen" may haunt me for a year or three.

 

When designing the house and choosing stuff, I ended up selecting most of the outside stuff, for some reason, and I felt it was a bit unfair, so decided that SWMBO should be encouraged to have a free hand in choosing the kitchen, bathrooms etc stuff.  Within a day or two I found our budget had grown a lot - something like £7.5k just for the work surfaces and window cills in the kitchen...

[ProDave]

12 minutes ago, JSHarris said:

 

When designing the house and choosing stuff, I ended up selecting most of the outside stuff, for some reason, and I felt it was a bit unfair, so decided that SWMBO should be encouraged to have a free hand in choosing the kitchen, bathrooms etc stuff.  Within a day or two I found our budget had grown a lot - something like £7.5k just for the work surfaces and window cills in the kitchen...

One day we will solve and fit the stained glass window panel..........