Genvex ASHP

[Geoff]

Genvex Air-Source Heat Pumps are a popular choice for self builders where there is no mains gas supply and/or eco homes.

My eco home completed in 2012 has a Genvex unit supplied by The UK Supplier which works very well when it is working however, I have not been impressed by the after sales service provided by The UK Supplier

The UK Supplier subcontracted the installation of my system and did not check on the quality of installation or commissioning. The first autumn following installation, the room terminals needed balancing and the noisy fans adjusted. The refrigerant circuits were found to be empty, but when tested, no leaks were found and refrigerant replenished. Over the following heating seasons the performance of the unit declined (compensated for by the electric duct heater).

A local refrigeration engineer has now identified a leak from the access port due to a defective valve and has refilled the system at a cost of £600.

Although The UK Supplier failed to identify the cause of the leak whilst the unit was under warranty, they are unwilling to address this inherent defect in the unit.

I would be pleased to learn of other self builders experiences with Genvex units, The UK Supplier or other ASHP units. I would also be grateful for recommendations for consultants with expertise in ASHPs who operate in the southeast of England.

[Jeremy Harris]

Welcome,

 

Not sure that Genvex are really a popular choice, we have a Genvex MVHR with heat pump and we're definitely in the minority here (I think only one other person here has gone with Genvex).  One issue may be that the markup that the UK importer/agent puts on these things is ludicrous.  Our GE Premium 1L was going to cost £6,611, plus £240 delivery, plus VAT from them, whereas I bought exactly the same unit from a Danish supplier for £3,895.21, plus £140.12 delivery.  Overall we saved about £2,815.67 by not dealing with the UK supplier.

 

The same goes for the price of spares and consumables, I got prices for replacement filters from the UK supplier but they are several times the price of identical spares purchased elsewhere.

 

Which Genvex unit do you have?  We've had our GE Premium 1L for several years now, and found it works fairly well.

 

The loss of refrigerant seems to be down to a defective Schrader valve in the fill port from your description.  Frankly it shouldn't have cost £600 to replace this and re-gas the system.  We live in an expensive area, and I was quoted £300 to vacuum, pressure test, leak check and re-gas a much larger heat pump recently.  I opted to do the job myself, and bought a vacuum pump, gauge set, etc for less than £100.  The cost of a bottle of gas is around £30.  If I ever need to re-gas our Genvex I'll probably do it myself, as the only additional cost not would be ~£30 for a bottle of gas (strictly speaking this is a bit naughty, as anyone doing this is supposed to have an F gas ticket, but it's reasonably safe and easy to DIY).

[Geoff]

Thanks

I went with The UK Supplier for my Genvex Combi 185 S as I wanted to deal with a UK based company that could take care of design and installation. Had I realised they would sub out the installation and provide very poor after sales service I would possibly have gone elsewhere.

Genvex appears to be a popular choice with the self builders on Grand Designs The Street according to The UK Supplier.

They do not think the defective Shrader valve was the issue but, have refused to come up with an alternative cause of the refrigerant loss.

The UK Supplier have previously suggested that the water temperature generated by my solar thermal panels could have affected the refrigerant (134a) but, couldn’t explain how this could happen.

[Jeremy Harris]

1 hour ago, Geoff said:

Thanks

I went with The UK Suppliert for my Genvex Combi 185 S as I wanted to deal with a UK based company that could take care of design and installation. Had I realised they would sub out the installation and provide very poor after sales service I would possibly have gone elsewhere.

Genvex appears to be a popular choice with the self builders on Grand Designs The Street according to The UK Supplier Environment.

The UK Supplier do not think the defective Shrader valve was the issue but, have refused to come up with an alternative cause of the refrigerant loss.

The UK Supplier have previously suggested that the water temperature generated by my solar thermal panels could have affected the refrigerant (134a) but, couldn’t explain how this could happen.

 

 

That company know diddly squat about Genvex stuff  IMHO.  They gave me a quote that had so many technical errors that I had to go through it correcting them before sending it back for revision.  They couldn't even calculate the ventilation requirement properly.  The reason I decided to buy from Sundthus DK in Denmark was mainly because I wasn't filled with confidence by the exchanges I had with that company.  Sundthus were great to deal with, and the fact that they sold the same system for a great deal less money was a bonus.

 

Most on this forum have MVHR  system (there are a few thousand members here now) and I only know of one other member that has a Genvex, and he has the same unit as yourself, I believe.  He bought his unit from the same supplier in Denmark that I used.  I'm not sure how many GD houses have used these units TBH, but I'd still suggest that these things are generally rarer than hens teeth in the UK, as we have hundreds of self-builders here and only two of us have opted to use a Genvex unit, AFAIK.

 

There's no way that the refrigerant could have been affected by a solar thermal system, that's just BS from a supplier who doesn't seem to understand the product they are selling.  A failed/leaking Schrader valve does seem like the most probable cause of your problem, as all of the pipe joints etc within the unit are silver soldered, so unlikely to spring a leak.

 

That supplier has no installation staff as far as I'm aware, they import units in from Denmark, put their mark up on them (including charging nearly double for delivery) and then sub-contract the installation to another company.  Sadly there aren't that many competent MVHR installers, it seems, and systems that are poorly set up, or not properly balanced, seem commonplace.  We have a couple of sets of airflow measurement kit that's owned by this forum so that members can borrow it to balance and set up their MVHR properly.   @PeterStarck, our member that has the same unit as yourself, I think, wrote up the balancing of his Genvex 185 on his blog, here: http://eastkentpassivhaus.blogspot.com/2015/12/commissioning-mvhr-system.html

 

 

[ToughButterCup]

2 hours ago, JSHarris said:

[...]

 Overall we saved about £2,815.67 by not dealing with the UK supplier.

The same goes for the price of spares and consumable, I got prices for replacement filters from the UK supplier but they are several times the price of identical spares purchased elsewhere.

[...]

 

That beggars belief. 

 

[Jeremy Harris]

12 minutes ago, AnonymousBosch said:

 

That beggars belief. 

 

 

 

It does indeed!

 

Not just my experience, either.  I believe  that @PeterStarck made a similar saving when buying his Genvex 185 from the same Danish supplier that I used.

 

I have no problem with a company adding a reasonable markup to cover their costs and make a profit, but in my view that level of mark up is simply obscene.  Makes me wonder what the trade price for these units is, as the Danish supplier that I used will be making a comfortable profit from selling them. 

 

I've just checked and the current retail price from the same Danish supplier that we used, for the same model that we have, is 43,747 DKK, including Danish VAT at 25%, which at today's exchange rate is £5,176.65, plus delivery to the UK at £147.92.  For a UK self-build, where the VAT can be reclaimed, the price works out at £4,141.32, plus shipping to the UK at £118.34.

 

The price from the UK supplier is currently £6,809.00 exc. VAT, including delivery.  So currently the UK supplier is still selling these units for about £2,549.34 more than the Danish supplier.

[Gone West]

On 22/09/2019 at 18:52, JSHarris said:

Not just my experience, either.  I believe  that @PeterStarck made a similar saving when buying his Genvex 185 from the same Danish supplier that I used.

Yes, IIRC we saved around £3000.