Indy

From the discussions we've had so far, the 3 build systems all end up costing roughly about the same. This is not from personal experience, but having spoken to at least a dozen different companies in the last 2-3 months which included traditional builders, TF and ICF suppliers. The shell of the building is only about 20-25% of the cost, and they will all roughly come in at a similar level. Where parts are cheaper, it will be balanced out by higher labour costs (brick and block), and where parts are more expensive - the speed to put that up is higher and hence labour costs are cheaper (timber frame). ICF seems to sit in the middle for both though the advantage with TF and ICF suppliers seems to be that they are willing to quote from planning drawings rather than wait for building regs drawings.

I've had my first quote come in for a sort of full turnkey service on a timber frame building - coming in as £3372 per sq m. Had to do a double take to make sure the figure wasn't wrong! They've made a number of allowances in there for 2nd fix items like £30k for kitchen+utility, £45k for glazing, £6k for their design service (which we don't need) - all of which seem very toppy to me but I guess this is the number to start with and work down from. No way we can afford that number and like you Sarah - we're aiming for somewhere as close to £2k as possible.

Not exactly what you asked for in terms of dealing with contractors, but I have another thread bookmarked which I found very useful It's a list of what to do and what not to do generally, when undertaking the next self build.

No change since the last time I posted (couple of weeks ago), and no MAJOR change to the original design (apart from the brick exterior being changed to render to tie in with the contemporary design). However, I do agree that the revised colour scheme lifts the design and makes it look fresher and lighter.

Isn’t pouring of concrete on site for any form of ICF considered in-situ? Trying to understand what the difference was in your approach so we can avoid the same.

That's good to know that it can be done with aluminium. What U-value should I be aiming at, which is at that inflection point between cost and efficiency? Not really fussed about reaching true PH levels, as long as I get good performance out of them.

In the process of speccing out a new build which is being built to a higher level of thermal efficiency than our current one. Most likely ICF and SIPS roof, and one of the areas we're now looking at is glazing. On the initial designs that we have from the architect, she has recommended powder coated aluminium windows. Speaking to a friend, that would be a bad choice as they are not as thermally efficient as timber, alu clad timber or even UPVC. What should I be looking at? Is there a clear favourite? Obviously funds are not limitless, but Ok to spend more to get better quality and looks are also important.

No comeback to that ? I would be interested to hear more about your experience and why you don't like Durisol that much. Does that extend to all woodcrete products or is it durisol only?

Not an expert so I will take the salesman's word for it, at least to begin with. And then come to a forum full of experienced people to understand the best way forward. I'm still in research mode so not fully decided on a system but this was the first session I attended so have nothing else to compare it to. One thing I did find was that airtightness would be an additional step, so looking at systems that somehow incorporate this to remove opportunities to get it wrong?

If that offer is open to others, I would be quite keen to have a look at the build in action Steve. Let me know and I can send you a direct message. I did also attend the Durisol training course at the NSBRC yesterday and one thing became really clear. While its really DIY friendly (much more so than the EPS type systems with reduced need for bracing), the language they were speaking versus what I understood means its beyond my ability to DIY any sort of system. I will be looking at getting a specialist builder to do this most likely.

Overall, I'm happy with the service received and they were the best value when I looked at the initial quotes, plus didn't charge VAT. It did however creep up from the initial £400 for the PRA, to over £1k in the end which included the 2nd and 3rd surveys. Whether those would have been avoided by going to another firm, I don't know but I've read some real horror stories about costs involved for bat surveys and licences required - so in the grand scheme of things, getting away with it for about £1100 doesn't seem that bad.

Undecided and the training course will help me figure out whether I can take on any elements of the work on a DIY basis. In all likelihood, its going to be done by a main contractor as I wouldn't have the time or expertise to take on the whole build.

Thank you all, been reading this subforum with a lot of interest and have taken the comments onboard. Trying to understand the difference between Woodcrete and EPS solutions, though there really doesnt seem to be a single definitive source that compares and contrasts the available solutions (maybe a task to take on!) I've also taken the advice to book myself on the training course and have so far been in touch with Durisol, Nudurua and Insulhub (ISOTEX) so will see how that goes.

This is exactly what happened in our case. Even though the preliminary assessment indicated a low likelihood of the bats being present (mainly due to misaligned roof tiles), the ecologist still insisted on 1 follow up survey which turned into 2 dusk surveys. Luckily there were no roosts in the property though it seems to be used as a 'resting route' to the green belt land we have opposite our plot, which meant that we'd need a licence (the cheaper one) to begin work.

I'm seriously considering ICF for my build and started looking at the different systems. So far I've spoken to Beco Wallform, Nudura and Durisol and they all seem to push the plus points of their product over the others. Any recommendations on how to go about choosing one over the other - are there any online guides or videos that would make it easier to understand? Most likely coupled with a SIPS roof.

The porch design is what took us the longest to finalise. Settled on having a double height porch with some sort of light feature in the entrance area. Dropping it to a single height looked a bit odd to us in the renders so we decided to stick with it.

We wanted to fit some down lights, so it was made slightly bigger to accommodate those comfortably.

Agreed, these are the placeholders for now but we’ve replaced the arched style for a more contemporary sliding gate to be reflected on the drawings. Design and colour will be finalised later.

Back with an update after another (and final) round of updates with our architect. The main changes we've made are around the palette of materials and colour choices as the design is fairly contemporary/modern but the choice of traditional materials (mainly brick) and colours (red/white) was coming across as quite brutal/intimidating? We asked an open ended question to the architect and this was the recommendation on what they'd do if it was their house. I hadn't really considered going for a render finish in white and grey roof, but I do have to say - it looks quite good on the renders. Plus it matches what the next door neighbours did, so will be an easier sell to the planners. Other changes are more subtle like increasing the roof overhang slightly so we can fit some external lighting on, making provisions for solar panels on the south side of the roof (not reflected on the renders) and some internal changes to the roof design. Basically opted to simplify internally and go for a raised truss roof which will allow us to keep the costs low (expensive steel not required), and the missus wasn't really into the whole vaulted ceilings look. Settled on this now and the 'crisp white offset by the grey' look has really grown on me in the last 2 weeks since we first saw it.

Same as us then, we used https://deepdeneecology.co.uk

Getting good at sales sounds much easier than it actually is. Some of the best sales people I've known don't do any active selling and certainly none of the pushy double glazing tactics. You start by building trust, showing that you understand the client, identify their pain points and then propose the solution. Your solution may not be the only solution, but if it resolves their problem by being in the right place at the right time (and roughly at the right cost), the client will usually be tripping over themselves to give you their money. There's all the usual psychology stuff around EQ, emotional intelligence, empathy, building and nurturing relationships, giving more than taking out - some of which may not directly apply to a transactional relationship like the one with architects, as they're usually engaged for a singular purpose.

I'm going to add my comments here since I've been engaged in a bit of back and forth with some of the posters on here, on my own thread in the new build form (where my design was knocked quite a bit). To answer your original question, there is one simple answer. You have to be good at sales. You can design the most brilliant houses but if you can't sell them to your clients then they're not getting built. Sometimes its as simple as laying out the rationale for your design choices, other times its going to be make your clients realise that what they want vs what they need are 2 separate things. I also agree firmly with the advice on this thread that people who want to self build often do so because they can't find anything on the general market that meets their needs. Which means hundreds of properties viewed, rejected and through that process - usually a good list of what works and what doesn't for them. If you automatically assume that people don't know what they want and they should go with what you're recommending - you've lost before even getting started. You may find the odd example of someone who will go with a completely new design, but people are people and confirmation bias is a real thing. They will want to work with someone who gives them what they want, calls them brilliant and praises their 'design nous'.

Happy to send you a discreet message as I wouldn't like to plaster that over a public forum. They were very competitive I'll add - not the cheapest and not the most expensive either.

This one is a big improvement over the initial designs you've posted and I can only say thanks again, but the major drawback with this design is the room sizes and how they would be constrained. We do have to deal with the fact that its a narrow plot, and if we leave 2m on one side, then create a hallway in the middle on the 1st floor all the way through - that would lead to quite small room sizes internally. One of the, if not the primary reason for us to self build was the room sizes and how I couldn't find anything on the market that really met our needs. I like big expansive rooms and most of the properties available on the market usually have the primary room of a decent size and the others are too small to do anything decent with.

In a way I'm glad that the post has generated such a healthy amount of discussion including some deep, somewhat philosophical arguments about what constitutes beauty and what's a good design etc. I'm going to stick to my guns and say I still really like the frontage. Not because I have to dig my heels in and back up my initial assertion, but because I truly do. My wife does, our families do and even some of our close friends we've shown it to. Some of that may be politeness but not everyone would collectively lie to us if they were that drastically bad. I will concede that none of them are self builders or immersed in the topic as deeply as the posters on this thread, and that was exactly the reason why I posted and kept coming back on this forum. Yes, I have seen better designs and I have seen worse designs. I would even put my neck above the parapet to say that I actually liked some of the designs on the McMansion website posted earlier. I see nothing wrong with designing a house that has a wow factor. Why shouldn't you feel proud of something if you're spending that much time, effort and money on it? It will still be built with fabric first principles - airtightness, thermal efficiency, MVHR, ASHP, UFH and now increasingly likely to include Solar PV connected to DHW. But that doesnt mean I want go for a bland square box or design only for efficiency. I am incorporating the feedback into my discussions with the architects and see where this takes us. Don't disagree with the fact that time spent now at the design stage will save us a lot of grief later, though its really hard to reconcile when every fibre of my being just wants to get the plans submitted so we can feel a sense of achievement for checking that box! Budget wise, my thoughts have been massively refined since the time I posted my other costing thread. 2 visits to the NSRBC and Build it Live this weekend lead me to believe £2-£2.5k/sq m is achievable and that's a much easier pill to swallow as compared to the £3.5k I was being quoted earlier.