Indy

Ok, quite hard reading all these comments but there's no trolling. Only our inexperience showing here as I freely admit we're not designers and our vision is very heavily influenced by what we've seen so far. Which has been mostly developer built exec boxes so I guess that's coming through. I didn't really set out to build something that has 'architectural merit', and tbh - didnt really set out to build anything at all. The original plan was to refurb but the costs and complexities have led us down this path - so its a learning curve and a steep one at that. I will take the comments into view but will still admit that I still like the overall frontage and can't see what's so horrifically wrong with it. We've already established we can't build a Georgian style house or a full 2 storey house, so its a compromise at this point and I'm trying to find the best way forward. Junking the existing design and starting from scratch seems like quite a big overreaction...

Ok, have had a bit of back and forth with the architects but struggling now to come up with more changes to the front facade, including the porch design. These are the changes we've already made: 1. Incorporate velux roof lights to bring in more light to the centre of the house. 2. Increased window size on the 1st floor to match the ground floor one. 3. Keystone effect above the windows to provide a bit of detailing/design 4. Colour of bricks changed to red, windows and general details to white. Roof will be grey as it gives us a nice classic colour theme that we've seen and like. 5. Porch design - struggling a bit. The ideas that I have are: 1. Reduce the height of the porch to a standard sized rather than 2 storey - as the light is not being transmitted to the house and feels like wasted money on glazing. Even the double height space will not really be used for much. A standard sized porch will have shoe storage, coat storage and benches for seating. OR 2. Porch walls replaced with glass to give it a bit of a wow factor? 3. Some sort of design on the hipped roof between the 2 gable windows on the 1st floor ? A porthole seemed like a good idea but worried it would look like a 3rd eye somehow. Kind of stuck now and would really appreciate any help or suggestions as to what we can do within the current design to make it more visually appealing.

That's a very good price for a main builder driven project, and a generous kitchen budget. People I've spoken to recently at NSBRC seem to indicate £1650 - £1850 / sq m for a self managed build. We're in one the more pricey parts of the SE so if I can get anywhere near that - I'll be a happy man.

I havent yet researched the different ICF systems so not too sure about the woodcrete vs continuous concrete core - thanks for the pointer, something to add to the reading list.

Its always the opposite of what you end up planning for isn't it. Sods law that we'd choose a construction method on price (as a factor) and then end up having to pay over the top once we're locked in!

At my behest. My love for all things Georgian was pricked up again when seeing the examples in this thread. And they were very quick to draw up a few options to demonstrate exactly why it wouldn't work. Planning at the current height is a 'risk' but a calculated one. My original idea was to replace the bungalow with a full 2 storey house including a habitable loft, which was not going to happen. The street is also on a slope, so we've managed to create a bit of height by aligning with the houses 'above ours'. Technically its higher than the current ridge height but visually it seems to fit in. Yes, this is what we're going with. A lower risk option (though not risk free) that has the best chance of getting planning. The street is quite long, and the stretch we're was originally a series of 5 bungalows and 3 x 2 storey houses built by the same developer in the 50s. We're located right at the entrance of the village (2nd house on the street), and as you move up - the houses are all mostly 2 storey ones. Its a mix in terms of construction type really, 30s, 50s, mock tudor, a lot of houses that have been redeveloped recently so include contemporary finishes. Not a lot of Georgian within this part, though there are certainly several multi-million neo-georgian mansion set on private roads on the other side of town that we share a postcode with. And more importantly, can't afford.... yet!

This is something they've already taken into account and some of the design decisions (especially the recessed balcony) was at their suggestion - to fit in with the SAP calcs. And while I thank you for your concern, I do have trust and confidence in their abilities. If anything, I'm guilty of what has been mentioned in the past - i.e. being too prescriptive on what I want and to their credit they've usually run with it and given me most of what I asked for.

Yep, this is very much the intent. Plan is to have insulation far in excess of building regs, but not sure if we want to go all the way to Passiv Haus standards. ASHP, Wet UFH, MVHR. One thing I'm not sold on yet is Solar PV. The plan is allow for this in the future, but trying to understand whether it makes sense to go all in now and take advantage of the VAT rebate or leave space in the plant room, beef up the roof trusses and add in the future.

I assume you're quoting this as a package of labour and materials cost, rather than just materials?

Yeah, Fabric first is the term that was thrown at us several times. This will mean upping the spec on the fundamentals and maybe cheaping out on 2nd fix items like doors/kitchens/bathrooms for now, as the latter will be relatively easier to upgrade in the future.

Ok, so the figure was taken from a comment that one of the architects at the show threw out, and is a very generalised number. I totally agree that you can't compare until you specify in detail the level of efficiency etc that you want, and I don't really have the answers to most of the questions you've posted here. I guess what I'm trying to understand is broad brush strokes - if the costs are the same (ish) for a similar level of passive haus-ness, would one system win over another?

I attended a walk through tour as the first thing when I reached the NSBRC which was led by an experienced builder of many years. His view was pretty much the same, the traditional method isnt suitable for modern, thermally efficient homes and he wouldn't recommend it anymore given that newer tech existed. MBC as a company has been recommended and I spoke to them briefly while there. Seemed quite helpful and are willing to take a look at our custom design to see what they can do. Obviously haven't explored in any detail on how this would come out costwise though the guy did hint that the cost conversations were much easier to have in 2018 as compared to now!

I have another thread in the new build design section detailing the journey to get the plans finalised and submitted. In the meantime, have been reading up about how to actually build and also attended the NSBRC show over the weekend and took in their talks/seminars (quite useful for a beginner). So far, I have no preference for a particular method of building apart from wanting what everyone wants - super speed and super cheap, with a top quality finish(!) I've listed out the pros and cons of each to try and understand the differences between the three methods: Traditional masonry - Pros 1. Cheap parts and easy to get insurance/mortgages 2. Easy to DIY in the future Traditional masonry - Cons 1. Slow to build 2. Labour in London is expensive (£500 for a brickie apparently) so cheap parts are offset by the long time it takes to build and get water/airtight. Timber frame - Pros 1. Quick to build when on site as all the design is done prior and built in a factory 2. Can find companies to do foundation slab and erect structure - which is the hardest part of the build. 3. Great insulation and thermal efficiency Timer frame - Cons 1. Used to be about 10-15% more expensive pre-COVID, and this has only got worse with timber prices shooting through the roof. 2. Slightly harder to get insurance/mortgages but this is the dominant method of new builds now apparently. 3. Noise issues are greater in a timber framed house? ICF - Pros 1. DIY element of laying out blocks, meaning some labour costs can be saved. 2. Monolithic structure means efficient house, and a feeling of being much more solid as compared to Timber frame. 3. Less noise issues - especially if paired with a block and beam floor. 4. Used to be relatively expensive - but now very competitive as concrete costs haven't gone up as much as timber in the last 2 years! ICF Cons 1. DIY options will become limited in the future as cutting through concrete isn't fun 2. Waterproofing external insulation is key - though not impossible. 3. As with TF - harder to get insurance/mortgages as this is less popular but now growing. All in all, I'm leaning towards ICF now as having a concrete structure and combination of beam and block floors will get rid of my biggest bugbear - the noise issues in old housing stock. Hate hate hate creaky floorboards and sound travelling through the house when you drop something relatively light. Thoughts greatly appreciated. Cost is obviously a concern though all conversations point to each system roughly equating to about the same in the end - higher part costs are offset with quicker build times (and lower labour costs).

One further update that I forgot to add is that all the glazing on the sides - the advice from the architect is that it wouldn't be worth it. We're building pretty close to the boundary on either side (leaving just over 1m to be compliant with the regulations) and have buildings on either side. So the windows on the sides won't actually bring in much light. Still debating as to whether its worth it, but this seems like sound advice - focus on the front (east) and back (west) glazing and rooflights on top, rather than spend more on the side windows which won't add much in the way of light but will increase cost. Happy to hear opinions on this.

Thank you so much for this, eerily close to what we were going for and great to see a visual representation of a finished product. The only difference would have been the choice of external cladding where we're leaning towards bricks/brick slips rather than render/timber cladding.

A brief update following some very active conversation with my architect this week (who also has a link to this thread and has been through the comments and other sketches). 1. They very kindly drew up a number of different Georgian options for us to consider. Not that this hadn't been considered in the past but laying it on the plot and comparing ridge and eaves heights, its clear that the georgian facade wouldn't work. The Chartered Planning consultant that's part of their firm also provided her professional opinion that the design would be out of kilter with the neighbouring plots and that the planners would take a very strong view of the proposed height of our development - which goes from 1.5 storey to 2 storeys and a loft. The end result is that we've taken their professional view into consideration and decided that it's not going to work. 2. We are in the process of looking at alternative options to pretty up the front facade, which includes the increased glazing on the 1st floor windows, different fenestration options amongst other things. I hope to get updates from them by the end of this week. 3. I've asked them to reconsider the roof design and we're looking to incorporate some rooflights/velux windows to bring more light into the centre of the house and change the design of the front gables so that it allows us to take the glazing all the way to the roof. This will mean a revised roof design and adding considerable cost - so we're considering our options here - but this is something that can be tweaked at a later stage, after planning has been granted.

Spec wise, we're aiming for something similar. ASHP, MVHR, Wet UFH throughout, Wood/LVT floors throughout including first floor (need something hard wearing with kids and dogs), Lots of glazing, decent quality touchpoints like stairs, doors, switches etc. Cost wise - £110 psf seems unachievable for me as I can't really do any of the trades myself. I am planning to act as the PM and general handyman/labourer, and maybe the decorator towards the end. Plan to buy a good spray paint setup, coat the entire house in white and move in, and then decorate in other colours over time.

Agreed, Georgian covered in brick would be the winner for me and timeless to boot but it's about how it fits in with the surrounding houses and how the planners are going to view it. One of the partners within the architect's firm is a Chartered Planner and his advice has been that its possible to get what you want - IF you're prepared for a length fight and waiting for a few years to exhaust all the options. That's very much what I don't want and the options we chose were carefully selected to maximise the chances of winning approval in the 1st go!

Again, liking this quite a bit though the wife doesn't agree and thinks its too much glass at the front of the house (!) I've now gone back to the architects with both these images as a representation to see what we can do. Was very touch and go as we were on the verge of submitting on Friday with the Design and Access statement having been finalised, and the pack ready. This will probably mean a small delay/additional work and cost to get the frontage right but I am keen to get it right now rather than resolve later. Internal layout, we're fairly set on and I can't see it changing massively but will read through the comments to see what tweaks we want to make. Thank you for all the comments so far and please do keep them coming.

The alternative to having the snug where it is, would to swap it out with the study and give it views over the garden. The issue there would then become of how to create access to it without going via our bedroom (a corridor would mean giving up space internally) and another thing we've discovered during lockdown is that you need a study that's tucked away from the family to minimise background noise on calls.

Its not in the renders, but we did have a structure at the front on the left hand side in an earlier version of the floorplans. Plan was to have Parking bay 2 as an oak framed open carport attached to the bike storage structure. However, when we saw the 3D render - it was too imposing and completely blocked the views from the front study so we've given that up and retained a clean view from the street, to keep the light flooding in, at least in the mornings.

A little more visualisation of the current design - which adds a little depth. I do still really like it, especially the porch/front entrance bit with the double height glass. Decisions decisions...

I have to say I really love this one. Neo-Georgian is very much up my street and was one of the things we had asked for in the initial brief, but the way the design developed - I think its one of those things that got put to one side and never really revisited. I am reading all the comments in the thread with great interest and its hard to ignore the logic. I shall go back to the architect and see what we can do, even though it may mean a month's delay and added cost to their initial quote! Tempted to only change the facade and then leave the internal layout unchanged as a compromise though once the tinkering starts, will be hard to stop...

We have houses on either side, and our garden backs on to the garden of another property. Though overlooking in that direction isn't too much of a concern due to the length of our garden and theirs. The balcony design was somewhat dictated by those concerns. Architect's recommendation that we have a balcony within the structure rather than externally protruding one, as it has a greater chance of being approved. Something also to do with shading and SAP calculations (which I didn't completely understand at the time!) Ridge height is 7.8m IIRC. And while I appreciate your offer to help, I'm just keen to get the plans submitted now as we've been in the process for 7 months with the architects (formally).

Thanks, that's quite useful to know. Even discounting it to lets say £1.2k to £1.5k per sq metre would put approx £200k to £240k of additional cost on the build. As much as I would love a basement (man cave for myself and to create a bar/whisky storage room), its a luxury that will have to wait till either the next one or when I hit the Euromillions jackpot!