Is rear wall outer leaf considered party wall in terraced houses??

[Chris S]

Good evening,

 

I'm trying to determine which sections of the party wall apply to our extension, in particular so that I serve the right notice and allow the right amount of time. I think I know but confirmation would be most helpful!

 

I am clear that we are not building a wall up to or astride the boundary line and that we are excavating with 3m of the boundary and adjacent building.

 

However I am not clear whether we are affecting the existing structure. The only possible location is the rear wall outer leaf at the 'T' junction of the party wall and rear walls, hence the title of the topic. See image attached.

 

If anyone could point me to some clear information on this I would be very grateful. I want to avoid finding that I should have served 2 months notice instead of 1 month and hence delaying our build and/or missing out on the opportunity for a builder to fit it in this year.

 

Many thanks in advance,

 

 

Chris

 

 

[Tennentslager]

@Temp might know

 

[Temp]

To be honest I'm not 100% sure. So just my opinion..

 

In most cases the brick bond crosses the boundary so I could argue there is some "reliance on support" by each side on the other. To me that suggests that a strip of the outer leaf is probably part of the party wall. I would think that strip would be about as wide as the thickness of the main part of the party wall.

 

Your drawing shows the new wall ties into the strip I believe is part of the party wall but only just. How have you arrived at the distance that it is set back from the boundary? Presumably its set back to avoid gutters overhanging the boundary but it doesn't look like you have allowed much for gutters? 

[Mr Punter]

If your new foundation does not extend below the current foundation I think this is outside the act.

[Chris S]

Thanks everyone for your responses

 

1 hour ago, Temp said:

Your drawing shows the new wall ties into the strip I believe is part of the party wall but only just. How have you arrived at the distance that it is set back from the boundary? Presumably its set back to avoid gutters overhanging the boundary but it doesn't look like you have allowed much for gutters? 

 

The distance between the new wall and the boundary is nominally 118mm. It is the same on the other side and enables the rear wall to be an exact number of bricks in length (mortar accounted for). It is a flat then pitched roof both sloping to the rear so there is no need for guttering. PW width is 300mm so yes, we are within 'the strip'. I think the most significant incursion would be the cavity tray.

 

1 hour ago, Temp said:

In most cases the brick bond crosses the boundary so I could argue there is some "reliance on support" by each side on the other. To me that suggests that a strip of the outer leaf is probably part of the party wall. I would think that strip would be about as wide as the thickness of the main part of the party wall.

 

This is what I am wondering.

 

Our neighbour on the right hand side built an extension last year that was the same in this detail (including ~120mm from the boundary). They used a professional surveyor who only served the 3m excavation PW notice on us, implying that the outer skin is not PW. But even though he sent the guidance doc I didn't pick up on this technicality and in reality it made no difference to us as they would still have had to put any damage right. We gave positive acknowledgement to them and would be very surprised if they didn't do the same in return.

 

But on the left hand side the property is council owned, so although we get on fine with the tenant this all has to go through the council (Welwyn Hatfield), who may want to pick up on a detail like this if it isn't correct!

 

Does anyone else have specific knowledge on this area or can point me in the right direction?

 

Thanks again

[Mr Punter]

I do not think this is a party wall issue. I would not bother serving a party wall notice as it will cost you time and money. The council could in theory apply for an injunction to stop you doing the work and you may be liable for their costs, but I very much doubt this would happen.

[Temp]

,+1

 

Unless you plan to dig deeper than the neighbors foundations I probably wouldn't bother with the PWA either.

 

If the neighbour that notified you asks tell them you aren't going deeper than their founds so it's not necessary

 

The council Tennant probably won't care unless you make a lot of noise or similar. If you notify the council they are likely to want to go by the book and are likely to want you to pay for up to three surveyors and any other costs they can dream up.

 

There is no penalty for not complying with the act. A neighbor would have to take you to court and prove you caused damage. Then the fact that you didn't get PWA would weigh against you. The judge might be more inclined to issue an injunction stopping work etc.

 

Perhaps ask the neighbors if you can take photos of any existing cracks in the nearest rooms before you start.