JCT 21.2.1 confusion

[divorcingjack]

Hi all, 

 

I'm currently wading through the nightmare that is getting site insurance set up and have hit a wall with Zurich. We will be building/digging next to neighbours (blocks of flats) on two sides and some prefab garages at the back, all within 3m, some under 1m away. All specified by an engineer, but still ...

 

We are in Scotland, so we don't have party wall agreements but I am worried about the possibility of damage occurring to other properties. So, I got a quote from SelfbuildUK (zurich policy) and then phoned them up to see about the possibility of adding JCT cover for non negligent damage. 

 

The Zurich lady INSISTS that they cannot give me JCT cover as I am not a contractor and the accidental damage section of my self build policy will cover it, as the wording below: So my question is - what is the difference between public liability cover for accidental damage and JCT cover? 

 

Sub-section 1 – Public Liability

a) accidental death of or accidental Personal Injury to any person other than an Employee where such death or Personal Injury arises out of and in the course of the employment

b) accidental loss of or accidental damage to material property

 

So this outlines that ANY accidental damage to a property will be covered under this section. The limit of indemnity is £5,000,000.

 

 

 

 

 

[Crofter]

Just bumping this to see if anybody can shed any light.

I guess I am very lucky as I didn't see the need for site insurance, as there are no other buildings immediately next to the plot.

[divorcingjack]

Thanks Crofter, 

 

We're still investigating the possibility of adding it to our contractors insurance as we are coming up with minimum premiums of £1000 for a weeks cover, plus our site insurance

 

The nightmare scenario is that we destabilise one of the neighbouring flats as our house is so tight to the boundary - the perils of developing an urban site. 

[DeanS]

Hello,

 

Did you ever find a solution for your JCT21.2.1?  We are looking at this too and it is very confusing.

 

We are in a slightly different situation, we are replacing a bungalow with a house and using the same foundations for a bag part of the build, and there is only one house which is 5m away.  All brokers / insurance companies 'recommend' we take JCT21.2.1 insurance.  But, I guess they would.

 

Our Engineer suggests risk to the neighbours house is low.  Its a tricky one.  How did you decide to proceed?

 

Thank in advance.

[DeanS]

Anybody?

 

We are getting quotes for £2k premium, and our Engineer thinks the risk of non-negligent damage is low (i.e. vibration, subsidence, heave etc).  He thinks this because we are demolishing a bungalow (mostly be hand) and building a new house on the same spot.  There is some mini-piling, but this is only because of a protected beech tree on the site.

 

Anybody have any experience / advice re JCT21.2.1 insurance they can share?

 

Currently I guess the choice is take a £2k premium or take a risk. 

 

[divorcingjack]

Hi DeanS,

 

Sorry, bit late - just catching up

 

Yes, we did get cover in the end - but we couldn't get it in our own name as we were not professional contractors. We eventually managed to get the insurance company to add it on to the premium for our contractors insurance as an extra clause for the specific job, the premium was £275, I think, but it was only for 2 weeks and soil removal from around our neighbours. There is an extended liability for delayed damage, which goes for 10 years after the completion of the works. There was a lot of paperwork. 

 

Incidentally, have you spoken to your piling contractor about it, I believe they all have this type of insurance as the risk of damage is more for piling. Their cover might be sufficient for the job. 

 

Are your works very close to other buildings, utilities etc? It's definitely not a standard clause - our contractor (30 years experience) had never heard of it! 

 

 

[DeanS]

Hello,

 

We asked the piling company, they said Non-negligence cover is not normally provided but can be added on a per project basis if needed (we will seek costs).  We also need to confirm if they are proposing driven piles, or auger / driven or if screw piles could be used.  The latter two I guess introduce less vibration.

 

The works are about 5 to 8 meters from the nearest neighbours.  The site has an existing bungalow on it and we are building on the same footprint and using the existing foundations for 80% of the footings.  There is a small section at the back that is deeper, this is where we need the piles and the piles are 8m from the neighbours.   We asked a party wall surveyor if we need a PWA and they confirmed we don't.  No utilities that we know of in this area of the building.

[divorcingjack]

I would pursue the piling company to see if they can add it on for a reasonable cost tbh. As I said, ours was surprisingly cheap if obtained through the contractor. We didn't have piles, but I was horrified by the amount of vibration from a large vibrating roller used for compaction of hardcore. 

 

Good job that you don't need a PWA by the way, they sound like an absolute nightmare. 

 

[DeanS]

Alas, the piling companies we spoke to didn't offer said cover.

[divorcingjack]

That's really suprising, all the pilers we spoke to insisted on it being in place before they would undertake work. I wonder if this varies throughout the country. Whar are you going to do? 

[DeanS]

South West London.

[DeanS]

Sorry, to be clear - the piling companies we spoke to didn't offer cover by default or even as an "extra".  Some could arrange it for specific jobs or if pushed but it was no cheaper than getting it ourselves.

[divorcingjack]

Ah I see. We had loads of trouble trying to get it in our own name, as we were not a contractor, but a client. I was amazed at how many people had not heard of it or denied that we needed it. 

 

Worrying, really. I hope you managed to get it sorted out OK. 

[Incipiens Mox]

I'm interested in this having just been through a questionnaire to get a quote for site insurance - needed for mortgage.

 

Because we're doing a demolition and large basement very close to a neighbours boundary and house, I want to be sure I'm covered, though I was a little surprised to find that site insurance was down to me rather than the general builder that's going to do the work - he has full insurance -  so I'm wondering whether it's him that has to have the JCT 21.2.1. cover or me, and whether it's needed - sounds like it probably is in my case.