LG Therma V mono block Air Source Heat Pump

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3 hours ago, ReedRichards said:

Dat is nuttige informatie voor@Ronnymaar het lijkt me erg slecht dat de beste hysterese-instelling van de luchttemperatuur die u kunt selecteren een temperatuurvariatie van 2 C heeft. Het is geen rocket science of iets nieuws om een thermostatische regeling te maken die veel nauwkeuriger is. Ik weet zeker dat de mijne (Drayton Wiser) dat wel is, maar tegelijkertijd staat hij niet meer dan 3/4 inschakelingen per uur toe om korte cyclussen te voorkomen als de thermostaat op een tochtige plaats staat waar de temperatuur fluctueert.  

The lowest for water is -2 and +2. The lowest for air is -0.5 and + 1.5.
Which isn’t too accurate also. 

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Look what I stumbled into 😉

This manual describes besides settings, also error codes and possible solutions.

Found some information that is new to me! hope this helps.

Because of the maximum up loadable size, I split the document in two parts.

Have fun.

646403533_LGThermaVServiceManualMFL68682007GM1217(settingsdebug)part1.pdf

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And part 2

 

1819152027_LGThermaVServiceManualMFL68682007GM1217(settingsdebug)part2.pdf

[Transition]

On 02/11/2022 at 13:01, Ronny said:

For example, the heating is on 24hrs a day with a set back after 19.00 hrs to -1. It is set to +1 at 07.00 and the temp in the living room is at 22 deg at 08.00 all heating stops shortly after this but the heating does not cut back in even when the temp drops to 20deg. any suggestions would be appreciated. At the moment i am using on average 10Kwh a day and +-6 of these are on the cheap rate during the night to charge the batteries and heat the DHW. I hope this all makes sense.

@Ronny Have you been able to reduce the offset bases on the hysteresis settings?

Over here it's relatively warm, so testing the effect of setting changes is restricted. Maybe the same in County Durham?

Let me know if I can help!

[ReedRichards]

34 minutes ago, Transition said:

Look what I stumbled into 😉

This manual describes besides settings, also error codes and possible solutions.

 

Thanks @Transition.  I have downloaded your uploads for future reference.

 

[Ronny]

1 hour ago, Transition said:

@Ronny Have you been able to reduce the offset bases on the hysteresis settings?

Over here it's relatively warm, so testing the effect of setting changes is restricted. Maybe the same in County Durham?

Let me know if I can help!

No i have made no progress at all. This is not surprising given my knowledge of the system, and yes it has been abnormally "warm" here for the time of year. I have changed a number of the settings, but i do not really see much change. We will see what happens when the cold weather arrives.

[DocK]

Hi all

Am new to the forum, came across this thread which has very vaulable information and was wondering if someone can help please.

ASHP installed as part of new built 2 years, due to falling out betwee builders and pump installers, never given any manuals, unit not registered with LG also.

Couple of months ago the remote controller went blank for no reason and hence no heating since 😞, had multiple electricians out who can detect power going to the RC but nothing happens, my understanding is that these units are sturdy and shouldnt go dead in a couple of years, apparently its difficult to buy just the RC on its own.

Have contact local ASHP installers who are happy to replace the whole system but wont come for repair.

Any advice will be much appreciated.

[Transition]

5 minutes ago, DocK said:

Hi all

Am new to the forum, came across this thread which has very vaulable information and was wondering if someone can help please.

ASHP installed as part of new built 2 years, due to falling out betwee builders and pump installers, never given any manuals, unit not registered with LG also.

Couple of months ago the remote controller went blank for no reason and hence no heating since 😞, had multiple electricians out who can detect power going to the RC but nothing happens, my understanding is that these units are sturdy and shouldnt go dead in a couple of years, apparently its difficult to buy just the RC on its own.

Have contact local ASHP installers who are happy to replace the whole system but wont come for repair.

Any advice will be much appreciated.

By "remote" do you mean the LG PREMTB100?

If so, I found this. Don't know if the price is competitive, but the sell the remote separately.

https://www.lgcomfortcooling.com/products/premtb100-encxcom

[Transition]

10 minutes ago, DocK said:

Hi all

Am new to the forum, came across this thread which has very vaulable information and was wondering if someone can help please.

ASHP installed as part of new built 2 years, due to falling out betwee builders and pump installers, never given any manuals, unit not registered with LG also.

Couple of months ago the remote controller went blank for no reason and hence no heating since 😞, had multiple electricians out who can detect power going to the RC but nothing happens, my understanding is that these units are sturdy and shouldnt go dead in a couple of years, apparently its difficult to buy just the RC on its own.

Have contact local ASHP installers who are happy to replace the whole system but wont come for repair.

Any advice will be much appreciated.

Found some more, even cheaper:

https://www.orionairsales.co.uk/lg-air-conditioning-premtb100-standard-iii-hard-wired-remote-controller-in-white-9843-p.asp

https://aircon-online.co.uk/product/standard-iii-wired-remote-controller/

 

[DocK]

5 minutes ago, Transition said:

Found some more, even cheaper:

https://www.orionairsales.co.uk/lg-air-conditioning-premtb100-standard-iii-hard-wired-remote-controller-in-white-9843-p.asp

https://aircon-online.co.uk/product/standard-iii-wired-remote-controller/

 

You are a star, now just need to find someone to install it.

[Transition]

8 minutes ago, DocK said:

You are a star, now just need to find someone to install it.

That shouldn't be to difficult.

It's connected only with 1 plug/ three wires at the backside of the remote.

 

 

[Transition]

57 minutes ago, DocK said:

Hi all

Am new to the forum, came across this thread which has very vaulable information and was wondering if someone can help please.

ASHP installed as part of new built 2 years, due to falling out betwee builders and pump installers, never given any manuals, unit not registered with LG also.

Couple of months ago the remote controller went blank for no reason and hence no heating since 😞, had multiple electricians out who can detect power going to the RC but nothing happens, my understanding is that these units are sturdy and shouldnt go dead in a couple of years, apparently its difficult to buy just the RC on its own.

Have contact local ASHP installers who are happy to replace the whole system but wont come for repair.

Any advice will be much appreciated.

Before buying a new remote, you could check with LG. You've possibly still got warranty??

You can reach them at ae.svcsupport@lge.com.

Just a thought.

[Ronny]

On 03/11/2022 at 17:48, ReedRichards said:

 

This feature is a deliberate part of the design of many fan-assisted heaters (that I looked at).  It makes them ill-suited for use with a heat pump.  I wonder if there is an override option?  You would think the manufacturers would clue-in and provide one.  

Just remembered about answering this. The unit is a myson high level unit i fitted as there was no wall space for a larger radiator. This has made the kitchen so much warmer. It has 3 speeds, the fastest i have locked out so i avoid too much noise. the other 2 speeds are automatic controlled until the room temp is within 1 deg of set temp, then it changes to low speed which is very acceptable in a kitchen, though i would not want it in a sitting room. The 35 deg is not adjustable, but i run the heating above this so it is of no concern. Like all these fan assisted units i think they are vastly overpriced for what you get. 

[ReedRichards]

On 23/10/2022 at 14:10, Ronny said:

Air heating set temp 17  26.

Water heat set temp  34   47.

Outdoor temp auto mode   -5   27

Indoor temp auto mode   16   24

LWT   30   47

 

 

If you still have these settings then you have a 17 degree range in your LWT for a 32 degree range in the outdoor temperature.  So to be strictly accurate your target LWT will be greater than 35 C if the outdoor temperature is less than 18 C.  I don't know how this is influenced by your indoor temperature because I don't use that mode of control.

 

Also, I'm concerned that you say you control your heating by varying the AI setting.  You can possibly do this if your system is perfectly "tuned" but if you are unsure about the correct settings then it seems to me that this is trying to run before you can walk. 

 

When I started with my heat pump I had AI off and experimented with what LWT I needed to achieve the indoor temperature I needed in winter.  This and figures for how radiator output varies with temperature, and the specified minimum operating temperature in the MCS Compliance Certificate enabled me to estimate a weather compensation line that was more ambitious than the one originally set by my installer.  Then I switched AI on and I've been running that for 9 months now and so far it has worked.  Possibly I could be more ambitious still but I'll try what I have for a full year first.

 

For what it's worth I have

 

LWT temp auto mode        29 50

Outdoor temp auto mode  -4 18

 

The heat loss calculation for my house were based on an outdoor temperature of -3.7 C and a LWT of 50 C so I used those for the lower limit.         

Edited November 14, 2022 by ReedRichards

[ReedRichards]

Just noticed that I posted a chart of my weather compensation line a while back:

 

 

[Ronny]

On 14/11/2022 at 09:00, ReedRichards said:

 

If you still have these settings then you have a 17 degree range in your LWT for a 32 degree range in the outdoor temperature.  So to be strictly accurate your target LWT will be greater than 35 C if the outdoor temperature is less than 18 C.  I don't know how this is influenced by your indoor temperature because I don't use that mode of control.

 

Also, I'm concerned that you say you control your heating by varying the AI setting.  You can possibly do this if your system is perfectly "tuned" but if you are unsure about the correct settings then it seems to me that this is trying to run before you can walk. 

 

When I started with my heat pump I had AI off and experimented with what LWT I needed to achieve the indoor temperature I needed in winter.  This and figures for how radiator output varies with temperature, and the specified minimum operating temperature in the MCS Compliance Certificate enabled me to estimate a weather compensation line that was more ambitious than the one originally set by my installer.  Then I switched AI on and I've been running that for 9 months now and so far it has worked.  Possibly I could be more ambitious still but I'll try what I have for a full year first.

 

For what it's worth I have

 

LWT temp auto mode        29 50

Outdoor temp auto mode  -4 18

 

The heat loss calculation for my house were based on an outdoor temperature of -3.7 C and a LWT of 50 C so I used those for the lower limit.         

Hi, I have read so much over a long period of time that i am probably more confused than ever. I have changed my settings to the same as yours, LWT temp auto mode 29  50, and Outdoor temp auto mode  -4  18. Offset at +2 only gave a temp of 20 deg so i changed this to+3 and the temp sits between 21 and 21.5 which is fine. On the old settings the house went to 21.5 to 22 deg but it never came back on all day with the result the house dropped to 19 or 20 deg. Today the heat pump is keeping the house at a nice temp so thank you very much for letting me try the settings you are using. There are so many setting which interact with each other and this is where i am lost. I did try running on the "heat" settings a while back but the Kwh usage was much higher so went back to AI. These are the settings i am using.

Air heat set temp                18   24

Water heat set temp          34   46

Outdoor temp auto mode   -4   18

Indoor temp auto mode      17   28

LWT auto mode                   29   50

The heat loss calculations for my house was also based on -3.7 and LWT of 50 c, so i assume this the standard worked to. Thanks again for your help as it is much more pleasant when the temp sits close to what you want. I have not felt cold this morning and this is a welcome change.

[ReedRichards]

44 minutes ago, Ronny said:

The heat loss calculations for my house was also based on -3.7 and LWT of 50 c, so i assume this the standard worked to. 

 

It shouldn't be a "standard".  The LWT of 50 C was the choice of my installer.  It was probably done on the basis that a few of my pre-existing radiators could not easily be replaced.  50 C was the maximum temperature for normal heating operation and it squeezed a bit more heat out of the too-small-but-fixed radiators.

 

-3.7 C is supposedly based on readings from nearby weather stations and is intended to be an outside temperature that is exceeded for 99.6% of the year.  I'm almost as far north as you can get in England, about 4 miles inland.     

[Ronny]

1 hour ago, ReedRichards said:

 

It shouldn't be a "standard".  The LWT of 50 C was the choice of my installer.  It was probably done on the basis that a few of my pre-existing radiators could not easily be replaced.  50 C was the maximum temperature for normal heating operation and it squeezed a bit more heat out of the too-small-but-fixed radiators.

 

-3.7 C is supposedly based on readings from nearby weather stations and is intended to be an outside temperature that is exceeded for 99.6% of the year.  I'm almost as far north as you can get in England, about 4 miles inland.     

Thanks for the explanation. As far as radiators go i had already installed and increased the radiator sizes as we lived in Africa for a very long time and feel the cold. The radiators were replumbed when the heat pump was installed as they were 10mm microbore. Can i ask where in the north of england you are. We are in a small ex mining village called Thornley, near Durham, so unless you are on the west side i would imagine your temperatures are similar to mine. It is now 13,15hrs and the house is still 21.5deg thanks to your very welcome input.

[ReedRichards]

You're a southerner from my perspective @Ronny , I live near Berwick-upon-Tweed.  You are probably right that our climates are similar.  I may be near enough to the sea for that to have some moderating effect on the outside temperature but I don't know.

 

If my sharing my own experienced has helped you then I'm very pleased.  Unfortunately I can only use the "Water" control mode, I don't know how "Air + Water" control changes things.      

[Ronny]

5 hours ago, ReedRichards said:

You're a southerner from my perspective @Ronny , I live near Berwick-upon-Tweed.  You are probably right that our climates are similar.  I may be near enough to the sea for that to have some moderating effect on the outside temperature but I don't know.

 

If my sharing my own experienced has helped you then I'm very pleased.  Unfortunately I can only use the "Water" control mode, I don't know how "Air + Water" control changes things.      

I am using air + water with the settings you provided so I would presume they would work for you as well. I am very satisfied with the way it has worked today. The house has been nice and cozy all day. As I have said before, the way the settings work is beyond my tiny mind, so I really appreciate all the help I get..You live in a very nice part of the country and when we go to Edinburgh we pass through your part of the world.(Not very often nowadays)

[ReedRichards]

To use Air + Water control I would have to override my third party controller by setting it to make the room so hot that it is on all the time then setting the indoor Air temperature to be lower on the LG controller.  I keep thinking I should try this to see what happens but I haven't yet been brave or bored enough to try.  

[Transition]

On 14/11/2022 at 10:00, ReedRichards said:

 

If you still have these settings then you have a 17 degree range in your LWT for a 32 degree range in the outdoor temperature.  So to be strictly accurate your target LWT will be greater than 35 C if the outdoor temperature is less than 18 C.  I don't know how this is influenced by your indoor temperature because I don't use that mode of control.

 

Also, I'm concerned that you say you control your heating by varying the AI setting.  You can possibly do this if your system is perfectly "tuned" but if you are unsure about the correct settings then it seems to me that this is trying to run before you can walk. 

 

When I started with my heat pump I had AI off and experimented with what LWT I needed to achieve the indoor temperature I needed in winter.  This and figures for how radiator output varies with temperature, and the specified minimum operating temperature in the MCS Compliance Certificate enabled me to estimate a weather compensation line that was more ambitious than the one originally set by my installer.  Then I switched AI on and I've been running that for 9 months now and so far it has worked.  Possibly I could be more ambitious still but I'll try what I have for a full year first.

 

For what it's worth I have

 

LWT temp auto mode        29 50

Outdoor temp auto mode  -4 18

 

The heat loss calculation for my house were based on an outdoor temperature of -3.7 C and a LWT of 50 C so I used those for the lower limit.         

@ReedRichards our AI settings differ a little. May I ask how the climate is in Berwick-upon-Tweed? How cold/ warm does it get in winter and autumn. Based upon that I can start changing your setting to work over here.

I was using AI, but as you wrote "it is trying to run before you can walk". It didn't result in a comfortable temperature at every outside temperature. So we switched it of.  At the moment I'm using a set water temperature.

As you, we are using a third party thermostat. Mainly because the hysteresis the LG remote offers is too big. We keep getting overshoots and as @Ronnyexperienced, the living room cooled down to much after the overshoot.

Do you have underfloor heating, or just radiators? What type of LG Heat-pump do you have?

Edited November 16, 2022 by Transition

[Ronny]

3 hours ago, ReedRichards said:

To use Air + Water control I would have to override my third party controller by setting it to make the room so hot that it is on all the time then setting the indoor Air temperature to be lower on the LG controller.  I keep thinking I should try this to see what happens but I haven't yet been brave or bored enough to try.  

I know it is always difficult to compare different settings when the outside temperature has an effect, and you (me) does not keep notes, but i am sure when i was using the LG controller with a set air temperature i was using more energy. Since using @reedrichards settings i have a nice warm house all of the time. I am using about 20Kwh a day at now, but that is the total for an all electric house. Anything with a standby setting is on as i find it a nuisance having to wait to use something, especially if i am in bed and want to print something.

 

3 hours ago, ReedRichards said:

To use Air + Water control I would have to override my third party controller by setting it to make the room so hot that it is on all the time then setting the indoor Air temperature to be lower on the LG controller.  I keep thinking I should try this to see what happens but I haven't yet been brave or bored enough to try.  

 

[Transition]

2 hours ago, Ronny said:

I know it is always difficult to compare different settings when the outside temperature has an effect, and you (me) does not keep notes, but i am sure when i was using the LG controller with a set air temperature i was using more energy. Since using @reedrichards settings i have a nice warm house all of the time. I am using about 20Kwh a day at now, but that is the total for an all electric house. Anything with a standby setting is on as i find it a nuisance having to wait to use something, especially if i am in bed and want to print something.

 

 

We do keep notes when we change settings. It helps me enormously when changes don't work out as I expected. Makes it easier to go back to old settings. And whats more, I usually only change one setting a time.

 

A bit of topic, but we do switch off some standby devices each night. Such as TV, Internet radio, soundbar, coffeemaker (we don't drink coffee at night ;-)). Turns out we save about 300 kWh per year. At current electricity rates over here (GBP 0.88/ kWh) we yearly save about GBP 265.

Edited November 16, 2022 by Transition

[ReedRichards]

6 hours ago, Transition said:

@ReedRichards ...

Do you have underfloor heating, or just radiators? What type of LG Heat-pump do you have?

 

I have just radiators and a 12 kW  (monobloc) Therma V. 

 

I assumed that my average radiator water temperature was 2.5 C less than the LWT.  My heat pump is specified to heat the house when the outside temperature is -3.7 C the inside temperature is 21 C and the LWT is 50 C.  So that's a temperature difference, inside to outside, of 25 C (rounded to the nearest degree).  And a Delta T for the radiators of 47.5 - 21 = 26.5 C.  I assumed that the heat loss from my house varied linearly with the inside to outside temperature difference and used a lookup table for how the heat output from my radiators varied with Delta T to calculate what LWT I would need for a range of outside temperatures between -4 C and 18 C.  Then I found a straight line that gives a reasonable fit to what is actually a gentle curve.

 

By coincidence @Ronny has a heat pump specified for the same operating parameters as mine so If I have calculated my weather compensation line correctly then it should work equally well for them.  But it's only as good as the heat loss calculations for my/their house are accurate. 

Edited November 16, 2022 by ReedRichards