Installing the Lindab gutter.

[peasthope]

Hi,

 

The gutter is tight in the KFK fascia brackets.  Managed to install the first section yesterday afternoon, after more than an hour fighting with it. Wrapped lengths of paracord around to pull the gutter sides together.

 

Too tight to slide longitudinally for positioning.  I don't want to risk loosening the brackets on the fascia.  Therefore think of applying 1" ratchet straps to squeeze tighter than the paracord.  Eg. https://www.truckingdepot.com/1-inch-heavy-duty-endless-loop-ratchet-strap

 

Hoping that allows longitudal positioning and helps with installing the remaining 3 sections.  Nothing about this in the manual.

https://europeangutters.ca/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/Lindab_assembly_rainwatersystem_EN.pdf

 

Anyone solved the problem?  Comments?  Suggestions?

 

Thanks,                ... Peter E.
 

[ToughButterCup]

22 minutes ago, peasthope said:

The gutter is tight in the KFK fascia brackets.

...

Anyone solved the problem?  Comments?  Suggestions?

 

I'm guessing  ( guessing  because I don't know what KFK fascia brackets are ) I solved a similar 'tightness' issue by re-seating the brackets so that the gutter could be mounted in the same way that their (Lindab) extensive video support suggests.  

 

Is the tightness caused (in part) by the gutter being fitted under the already tiled roof? I had to take a row of roofing tiles off to give us some more room to work.

 

Edited yesterday at 14:11 by ToughButterCup

[peasthope]

Quote

I don't know what KFK fascia brackets are ...

Illustrated on page 15 here.
https://europeangutters.ca/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/Lindab_assembly_rainwatersystem_EN.pdf
KFK grips the gutter from below and around as a big hand might.

 

Quote

Is the tightness caused (in part) by the gutter being fitted under the already tiled roof?

The gutter fits tightly in the KFK bracket.  The illustration shows the back edge of the gutter against the top flange of the KFK; the rolled front edge of the gutter lodged in the hook at the front of the KFK.  Imagine a gorilla hand grippng the gutter from below.

 

The roof is not involved.  The gutter is simply tight in the KFK bracket. The brackets not attached to anything are just as tight on the gutter.

 

Thx,                    ... P.

 

[Mr Punter]

Robin Clevett has a video on Lindab gutter install.  Set the brackets so they do not clash with joints or outlets.  Get the lengths up with a small gap between them so they don't foul on each other when fitting.  Make sure you are happy before clipping into the brackets.  It doesn't slide like plastic stuff.

 

 

[peasthope]

The reply mechanism insisted on inserting another copy of the video. Redundancy avoided.

 

Punter wrote,

Quote

Robin Clevett has a video on Lindab gutter install.

Thanks!  The other vids I've seen use mounting brackets other than KFK.

 

Quote

Set the brackets so they do not clash with joints or outlets.

Based upon equal spacing I calculated a list of offsets and checked for clearance at couplings. Then stretched out a long tape and marked off.

 

Quote

Get the lengths up with a small gap between them so they don't foul on each other when fitting.

The Lindab manual mentions the clearance is for thermal expansion.

 

Quote

Make sure you are happy before clipping into the brackets.  It doesn't slide like plastic stuff.

Yes, Robin C. makes it appear easy. Not so here. I wonder whether some factory runs make the gutter at the wide end of tolerance and brackets at the narrow end. I'm not convinced such a tight fit is necessary. In absence of a helpful gorilla or two might resort to ratchet straps.

 

Thanks,              ... P.

 

[peasthope]

Hello again,

 

The Lindab manual, page 3, advises stainless steel screws to fasten brackets.

https://europeangutters.ca/wp-content/uploads/2024/08/Lindab_assembly_rainwatersystem_EN.pdf

 

The KFK fascia brackets are on page 15 and the instruction is "countersunk wood screws". Nevertheless the Lindab supplier sent roofing screws.  =8~/  The attached photo shows the two forms of screw.

 

The back of the gutter needs to shift up to contact the top of the bracket whereas the head of the roofing screw catches the edge of the gutter.

 

So I want to order appropriate screws. 

 

Countersunk flat heads.  Eg.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005012148922787.html

 

Pan head is also available and more appropriate to seat on a flat surface.  Eg.
https://aliexpress.com/item/1005011877169921.html
For the st4.8 the head is ~9.5 mm diameter & ~3.7 mm high.

 

The perimeter of the hole in the bracket is flat rather than countersunk.  Any ideas why Lindab recommends a countersunk head to seat on a flat surface?  If specific to the instructions for Canada, I'd wonder whether it's just an idea from a non-technical document editor.

 

Thanks,                      ... P.
 

Edited 41 minutes ago by peasthope

[Gus Potter]

28 minutes ago, peasthope said:

The Lindab manual, page 3, advises stainless steel screws to fasten brackets.

Ah! We can see you want to get this right, not cut corners, well done you!

 

The first thing is to recognise that building is not an exact science. We almost always need to combine different materials, that behave in a different way. What we often seek is the best compromise in a non ideal world, that is often driven by buildability. 

 

If you take the KFK bracket. It's powder coated on galvanised steel. Now stainless steel screws are not completely compatible with galvanised steel, if the powder coating does not act as an electrical barrier. Inevitably the screw will breach the powder coating, making an electrical circuit. But as the screws are small and the galvanised gutter is large in comparison the galv gutter acts as the sacrificial anode. On this note although technically a stainless screw is a bit incompatible with the gutter we need to look at what the screw is going into, say timber wise. Now if it's into acidic types of timber, say oak then you would be best with a stainless steel screw. It's all about seeking the best compromise!

 

The photo posted. 

 

I note the bottom screws looks like a roofing screw, the head is too large, washer under. Hence the possible clash. 

 

Check again the Lindab info about countersunk screws and watch Robin Clevett video again. Pan head screws make sense to me as the hole tolerance difference is negligible. Remember your building is going to settle / shrink expand deferentially!  Probably a lot more than a mm on you gutter fall! To provide some context.. over 50 years we often, as a starting point expect 25mm settlement!  Bear this in mind at all times when setting you gutter falls and take a pragmatic view!

 

If you think about the loads on the gutter. The middle of the gutter applies not just downwards load to the bracket but also what we call an eccentric load. This causes a rotational / prying force which puts the top fixing in tension. Now a pan head screw, when you analyse it, is not generally going to pull through the bracket. Rather, the key point of failure is going to be the top screw pulling out the timber fascia. 

 

In summary make sure your fascia is thick enough and use stainless steel pan head screws compatible with the hole in the gutter bracket. Make sure your fascia is well fixed back to the main structure.