Samsung EHS Mono R290 / Quint TDM

[Bridgfordman]

Does anyone have any knowledge about the above? I'm interested in installing a unit at my home to replace a gas boiler driven system and provide air conditioning. Thanks

[JohnMo]

It's not an Aircon unit, but a A2Wso connects to wet heating system. Should do cooling as well, but depends what it's connected too.

 

So may need more information 

[Bridgfordman]

Sorry JohnMo below is more info (thanks to Google Gemini) but I need human input too!

I am planning a 100% electrified, full gas-decommissioning project for a detached, traditional brick/block home in Nottingham (NG2). The house features filled cavity walls, solid concrete ground floors, and modern gas-filled, heat-reflective uPVC double glazing throughout.

I am looking to specify the newly launched Samsung EHS Mono R290 (8kW) / Quint TDM Plus multi-hybrid platform integrated with the 200L ClimateHub floor-standing unit, utilizing the £7,500 BUS grant.

The proposed design splits the home into a hybrid air-to-water and air-to-air network from that single outdoor compressor:

• Ground Floor Space Heating: We are retaining our existing Double-Column and Double-Panel radiators. However, these operate over an existing 8mm micro-bore copper pipe manifold infrastructure. To manage the high flow rate of the heat pump against the resistance of the 8mm pipes, the plan is to install a wall-mounted 50-litre close-coupled buffer vessel (e.g., Samsung MIM-B19N) inside the hot water cylinder cupboard to act as a hydraulic separator, powered by an external secondary variable-speed circulation pump (e.g., Grundfos UPS3).
• Ground Floor Cooling: We want to mount WindFree™ wall units downstairs in the Lounge, Sun Room, Playroom and Kitchen. 
• First Floor Space Heating/Cooling: We are completely decommissioning and capping off all the existing low-surface-area single bedroom radiators. Instead, we want to run a medium-static ducted fan-coil matrix hidden in the loft, splitting into 4 bedrooms via insulated flex ducts, motorized electronic zoning dampers, and independent room thermostats. The playroom will get a standard wall head on the same side of the house.
• Grid Infrastructure & Tariff: The entire heating and hot water platform will be wired downstream of a Tesla Powerwall 3 and Gateway, running alongside our 6kWp solar array and the dynamic E.ON Next Optimise tariff..

My questions for the group:

1. Has anyone got early field data or a hands-on review of the modulation floor and part-load efficiency of this new Samsung R290/TDM Quint chassis?
2. Are there any hidden pitfalls when balancing a secondary pump curve across 8mm micro-bore manifolds downstream of a 50L low-loss buffer?
3. How responsive is the SmartThings automation when attempting to interface with dynamic half-hourly grid tariff parameters alongside a home battery?
4. Can anyone recommend an MCS-accredited, heat-pump expert installer covering the Nottingham/East Midlands area who has the hydronic and aerodynamic capabilities to handle a hybrid project like this?

I am fully intending to commission an independent Heat Loss Hub / Heat Geek design package before signing a labour contract with any firm, but I would highly value any independent critique or advice on this kit combination before kicking off the formal engineering blueprint.

Thanks in advance!

---

 

[-rick-]

Not sure this really addresses your question in any way but given the end result I wonder why you are so focussed on the specific solution? ie, specifying Samsung

 

Given that you are looking for an installer to do this work for you and installers with experienced of mixed radiator/fancoil installations are rare, why not look for an installer with the right experience and then seek their advice for the solution? They will likely have specific solutions they are most familiar with and the best installer that is close enough to you might have different equally suitable solutions. Now, Buildhub is littered with people who come here because they've had naff advice from an installer so it's good to go into a conversation understanding what you want but I can't help feeling there are multiple routes you could go down to get what you want. For example, Panasonic have offered these solutions for a while and multiple people hear have used them and found installers for them. I've not heard of Mitsubishi being used like this before here.

 

I'm not saying Panasonic is better, or that Samsung is the wrong answer, just that it feels too early in the process to narrow the spec down.

 

Edited 3 hours ago by -rick-
For some reason I read Mitsubishi not Samsung. Point remains the same

[-rick-]

2 hours ago, Bridgfordman said:

3.How responsive is the SmartThings automation when attempting to interface with dynamic half-hourly grid tariff parameters alongside a home battery?

 

No comment if you plan to use something native to SmartThings, but if you were thinking about integrating into Home Assistant I've just seen that Samsung have announced they will charge a per month subscription if you want to use Home Assistant.

[Tim_C]

Following this thread with interest! I'm also thinking about these 'hybrid' heatpumps that support air2water and air2air for my selfbuild.

 

I can't directly help with your questions, but also notice Daikin released a similar offering in June:

https://www.daikin.eu/en_us/press-releases/daikin-introduces-x-series.html

 

2 hours ago, Bridgfordman said:

utilizing the £7,500 BUS grant

 

Is it confirmed that Samsung EHS Quint will be BUS grant eligible? 

[JohnMo]

To me it looks a complex solution to allow heating and cooling and is possibly daft money. Not really keen on a solution that is reliant on one manufacturer as one bit does most likely it all does.

 

I would step back a little. Have a rethink.

1. An A2A solution (Aircon) do it for whole house and heat and cool. Do DHW via a direct UVC.

2. A2W (ASHP). Dump the idea of a buffer. If you want cooling think fan coil to replace radiators. You can keep your micro bore, but do a close couple tee instead of buffer. Way less chance of flow and return mixing. Then balance flow either side of CCT.

[JohnMo]

6 minutes ago, Tim_C said:

selfbuild

Keep it simple, UFH which allows heat and cool, if you have an upstairs fan coils in bedrooms. It's cheap enough without any grants

[-rick-]

5 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

To me it looks a complex solution to allow heating and cooling and is possibly daft money. Not really keen on a solution that is reliant on one manufacturer as one bit does most likely it all does.

 

Tend to agree, especially if you are installing for the express purpose of using 'smart' features that most companies seem to support for about 5 years and then end-of-life leaving you stuck.

 

5 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

I would step back a little. Have a rethink.

1. An A2A solution (Aircon) do it for whole house and heat and cool. Do DHW via a direct UVC.

Or a heatpump UVC if you want.

 

8 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

2. A2W (ASHP). Dump the idea of a buffer. If you want cooling think fan coil to replace radiators. You can keep your micro bore, but do a close couple tee instead of buffer. Way less chance of flow and return mixing. Then balance flow either side of CCT.

 

Yep. If you want one heatpump to rule them all then stick to an air2water monobloc and run everything off the water loop including fancoils. I think that's what the Samsung system is doing but the Daikin system is not. I wouldn't want refrigerant lines running all over the place in my house. R290 is not an option for that (very strict limits on its use due to flammability) so you end up with R32 which requires an F-gas certified person to do anything related to the pipework. DIY not an option.

[JohnMo]

11 minutes ago, -rick- said:

heatpump UVC if

I've been able to make these work cost wise, especially when you use a time use tariff. Even with an ASHP I just do immersion heating.

[SimonD]

3 hours ago, Bridgfordman said:

However, these operate over an existing 8mm micro-bore copper pipe manifold infrastructure. To manage the high flow rate of the heat pump against the resistance of the 8mm pipes, the plan is to install a wall-mounted 50-litre close-coupled buffer vessel (e.g., Samsung MIM-B19N) inside the hot water cylinder cupboard to act as a hydraulic separator, powered by an external secondary variable-speed circulation pump (e.g., Grundfos UPS3).

How have you determined that you actually need hydraulic separation and additional pump? This is really not always needed and I'd recommend you calculate the pressure losses fully before specifying this in a design. Even if you used CCTs, you're going to suffer from distortion on the secondary circuit, even if it is variable speed pumped. E.g. right now I'm completing an installation for a customer that has a mixture of 8mm, 10mm copper and 10mm plastic throughout. Pressure loss is no problem.

[-rick-]

33 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

Keep it simple, UFH which allows heat and cool, if you have an upstairs fan coils in bedrooms. It's cheap enough without any grants

 

Based on reading peoples experiences on here if you are a competent DIYer and you can get easy/low cost access to an electrician and plumber to do the regulated bits then you can self install for a similar price than you will end up paying an MCS installer. (The MCS installer will take the grant and charge you much more on top partly to cover MCS, etc, overheads but also to make a tidy profit).

 

Having said that if you are not confident in your ability to do this stuff then getting an installer in is really the way to go. The effort should be spent on finding a good one.

[SimonD]

6 minutes ago, -rick- said:

The MCS installer will take the grant and charge you much more on top partly to cover MCS, etc, overheads but also to make a tidy profit

Maybe, but a good MCS installer isn't just an installer, they're a system designer too. Good design takes both time and experience, especially since the OP has already mentioned hydraulic separation. That's entering a mine field. If you find a good one, that will pay dividends down the line.

[-rick-]

9 minutes ago, SimonD said:

Maybe, but a good MCS installer isn't just an installer, they're a system designer too. Good design takes both time and experience, especially since the OP has already mentioned hydraulic separation. That's entering a mine field. If you find a good one, that will pay dividends down the line.

 

Sure and I'd guess even most DIYers aren't going to be capable of doing anything other than the most basic system, unlike that proposed.

 

A middle ground is the umbrella scheme, where the scheme provider does the design work and you take care of the install with the provider coming in to do commissioning and sign off. Likely costs are possibly cheaper than pure DIY as you do get access to the grant, though it will take more time and co-ordination and options are limited. For a complex install as we are discussing it'll be extremely difficult to find a viable scheme.