Advice re: BMS Panel

[bmj1]

Hi all,

 

Having done my own (smart) home, I typically made use of self contained systems, i.e:

 

• Lutron Ra2 Select
• Shelly
• Velux
• Coolmaster
• Heatmiser
• Unifi Access
• Wiim
• Rainbird

 

When it came to automations - I ensured everything could connect to Home Assistant and built my automations that way.

 

I'm now working on a community project - ~900m2 over 2.5 floors of shared communal space.

 

The MEP guys are advising we need a BMS panel. I don't get it. He shared me the below as an example of the kind of thing we're talking about.

 

Is he right ? Is this the modern way to approach things ? Please guide me ! Thank you in advance !

 

[JohnMo]

Proper buildings don't put up with fragile smart home stuff (most homes don't). They want / need a robust system, that any one understands, can manage and repair - not calling in a tinkerer from their garage or man/woman shed. Hence stating you need a BMS (building management system).

[bmj1]

13 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

Proper buildings don't put up with fragile smart home stuff (most homes don't). They want / need a robust system, that any one understands, can manage and repair - not calling in a tinkerer from their garage or man/woman shed. Hence stating you need a BMS (building management system).

That makes sense. Any recommendations of how we can minimise Total Cost of Ownership?

 

I'm worried about capex, as well as license fees and maintenance fees.

 

Also, any recommendations systems ?

 

Thank you in advance.

[-rick-]

7 minutes ago, bmj1 said:

That makes sense. Any recommendations of how we can minimise Total Cost of Ownership?

 

I'm worried about capex, as well as license fees and maintenance fees.

 

Also, any recommendations systems ?

 

Thank you in advance.

 

Only looking at the proposed panel, I see nothing on there that necessarily requires a BMS system with complicated setup. Just hard wires into the various systems.

 

Does he want this wired up to a BMS controller that then has interfaces with all these systems or is he just proposing a panel where you can see the status of everything at a glance.

Doesn't look like there is anything complex going on, so keeping it simple with some hard wired indicators and switches and no computers involved seems like the obvious answer. (If you need a simple PLC for sequencing relays then sure but can't see why you need a full BMS which will a likely 5 digit number to your costs).

[bmj1]

This was just an example of a previous job the MEP designer shared.

 

 

He was saying there needs to be a control system for the ventilation, AC, Heating, openable windows, etc, e.g:

 

- Interlock to prevent AC and heating operating at same time

- Interlock to disable AC and ventilation when windows are open

- Possibly some automatic opening of windows when Fire Alarm triggers

etc

 

Does that make sense ?

[-rick-]

2 minutes ago, bmj1 said:

He was saying there needs to be a control system for the ventilation, AC, Heating, openable windows, etc, e.g:

 

- Interlock to prevent AC and heating operating at same time

- Interlock to disable AC and ventilation when windows are open

- Possibly some automatic opening of windows when Fire Alarm triggers

etc

 

Does that make sense ?

 

Doesn't sound crazy. (I'm not expert, I've been involved in precisely 1 BMS system and was mostly hands off and not impressed with the final result).

 

The above can all be done with relays (and a timer) so don't necessarily need a computerised control. Worst case a PLC with the ladder logic printed out and stored in the cabinet so it can be replaced if it breaks.

 

Having said that if opening windows if the fire alarm goes off is a requirement for fire safety you may well get into a much more regulated area with the need for certified systems, battery backups, regular maintenance, etc. The other points seem trivial to do.

 

I would stay away from anything more heavily computerised if you can. You'll just be paying an endless series of extra bills. Every bit of equipment you buy will likely cost more up front and then you'll be paying specialists to configure and maintain them, etc.

 

I'm about at my limit of useful contributions here but even if it doesn't help me say more it may help others if you could say more about what the requirements/specifications are for this building.

[-rick-]

I should add, on the fire/smoke issue, we do have one in the building I'm a director of the RTM (separate from the BMS I mentioned above). It's entirely seperate from everything else. Designed to be manually controlled by breakglass (though our recent FRA suggested it might need to be wired into the fire alarm now).

 

Quick look at our budget at it looks like it's costing us about 2k a year for firealarm/smoke ventilation system maintenance, for a 6 story/27 flat block (below 18m where extra regs kick in).