Falling at the First (Fix) Fence…

[G and J]

So, we are rabidly getting everything shoved into the walls to get ready for plasterboarding.  
 

The plumbing side of things is a simple ‘radial HEP2O, no joints in the walls’ type affair.  Isn’t that just so simple (in theory).  And then I open the box of the Aqualisa thermostatic shower gubbins.  
 

Last time I fitted such things was in ‘91, and they are still going (with a facelift on one and new cartridges on both, but still).

 

So this time I discover that I have a 15mm compression joint on the control inlets.   Q: Can I put 15mm HEP2O with an insert straight in?  I’m sure I’ve done that before but is it a good idea?  Is it better to convert to copper for the last few inches?

 

Secondly, the outlets appear to be suited to installations where one has access to the back of the shower wall. Bugger.  
 

For fitting without access to the back of the wall the instructions just say put a 1/2 inch connector in the wall then later screw the shower hose bit into it with some PTFE tape.  Sort of like an external tap connector.  (See instructions below). 
 

Q:  is that what people really do? Will that even work? Will I end up with a wobbly rain head pointing at the ceiling?

 

Guidance very much appreciated folks. 

[Nickfromwales]

You use outside tap type angled backplates for the outlets to the handset and rainfall head  

 

https://www.screwfix.com/p/flomasta-brass-compression-adapting-90-wall-plate-elbow-15mm-x-1-2-/92934?tc=BT1&gclsrc=aw.ds&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=19822796606&gbraid=0AAAAAD8IdPyUGEfGZZmhJ90IDJw5JjdyE&gclid=Cj0KCQiAkPzLBhD4ARIsAGfah8hKcKRu6pms4b1EB6CpPB7-4xkBVO9bS-dQVLeJvDxI7Mgb0nVqyuAaAvBDEALw_wcB

 

And....

 

37 minutes ago, G and J said:

 Is it better to convert to copper for the last few inches?

 

Do exactly this (please).

 

38 minutes ago, G and J said:

Secondly, the outlets appear to be suited to installations where one has access to the back of the shower wall. Bugger.  

Not true of every single one I've ever fitted, and that's "more than one"  

[G and J]

Thank you Nick.  So the PTFE tape amount is adjusted till the shower head is pointing vaguely downwards…

 

Hmmm.  That means all the weight is on that 1/2inch thread.  Scary.  But then, I am good at worrying about the wrong things. 

[Iceverge]

53 minutes ago, G and J said:

Can I put 15mm HEP2O with an insert straight in?  I’m sure I’ve done that before but is it a good idea?

 

 

I did.........it's working still ....2 years later......

 

 

Or just listen to Nick. 

[G and J]

The annoying thing is that it literally trebles the number of buried joints. 

[Nickfromwales]

9 minutes ago, G and J said:

The annoying thing is that it literally trebles the number of buried joints. 

And?

[Nickfromwales]

42 minutes ago, G and J said:

Hmmm.  That means all the weight is on that 1/2inch thread.

…..made of solid brass….

 

Are you planning on any WWF slam down matches in the shower? Or just bathing as we do here; 2 adults, 4 very unsympathetic children now teens hammering these things. 
 

Still as good and functional as the day I put these in, 7 or 8 years ago now iirc.

 

Cheap as chips shower arm (380mm long for my 800mm wide bath) and the rainfall head was £8.99 on eBay. Died after 6 years of use / abuse, another £8.99 one went on. Looks like a £100 one, so sue me  

 

https://ebay.us/m/b0q0qC

 

More money left over for beer.

 

Chill out, it’ll be perfectly fine

 

Can we see a pic of the connections on the shower valve plz?

[G and J]

10 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Can we see a pic of the connections on the shower valve plz?

Will try and remember to post one tomorrow night. 
 

10 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Chill out, it’ll be perfectly fine

If only.  If I had nothing on the build worrying me I’d worry about what I didn’t know about that I should be worrying about lol

[Nickfromwales]

12 hours ago, G and J said:

Will try and remember to post one tomorrow night. 
 

If only.  If I had nothing on the build worrying me I’d worry about what I didn’t know about that I should be worrying about lol

Not a great pursuit, especially if you’re getting robust advice from a random Welsh fella, one who’s been installing high end, luxury bathrooms most his life. 
 

Let us tell you when to worry.

 

If something is worrying you that much, share it here. Pointless suffering needlessly in silence!

 

Post a pic of the shower valve, or zap a link. I’ll advise you then. Simple as that   

[Iceverge]

It was my parents house. They have well water which EATS copper for breakfast. 

 

Of course I could have put in a water treatment unit etc etc bla bla but I risk/wallet assesed that a Hep2O olive and insert into a brass fixing (as per their manual!) was a satisfactory solution. I was able to run the pipe joint free to its final destination too which pleased me.

 

In any case its accessible from the rear through a cupboard and any leaks will end up in the shower so I think I'm covered.

 

None the less my advice is to listen to the Welshman, especially if you are on mains water. 

 

[G and J]

7 hours ago, Iceverge said:

It was my parents house. They have well water which EATS copper for breakfast. 

 

Of course I could have put in a water treatment unit etc etc bla bla but I risk/wallet assesed that a Hep2O olive and insert into a brass fixing (as per their manual!) was a satisfactory solution. I was able to run the pipe joint free to its final destination too which pleased me.

 

In any case its accessible from the rear through a cupboard and any leaks will end up in the shower so I think I'm covered.

 

None the less my advice is to listen to the Welshman, especially if you are on mains water. 

 

We are on mains water (softy townies now, we are), and we won’t have access to the pipes without using a bolster, so copper and joints it is.  
 

8 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

Not a great pursuit, especially if you’re getting robust advice from a random Welsh fella, one who’s been installing high end, luxury bathrooms most his life. 
 

Let us tell you when to worry.

 

If something is worrying you that much, share it here. Pointless suffering needlessly in silence!

 

Post a pic of the shower valve, or zap a link. I’ll advise you then. Simple as that   

I’ll have you know an Englishman’s anxiety is his castle, (or maybe mausoleum), so I’ll worry as and when, but if only I could choose.     But your sentiment is appreciated.  
 

Here’s the valve…

 

 

 

[Nickfromwales]

2 hours ago, G and J said:

But your sentiment is appreciated.

Ahhhhhhh!

 

 

 

I've seen this before, and I think we're in quite a predicament here, so sorry to be the bearer of bad news.

 

 

 

 

 

 

How can I say this......I guess just come straight out with it I suppose........here goes........................................

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Questionable rug.

[G and J]

7 hours ago, Nickfromwales said:

Questionable rug.

Indeed........on borrowed time!

[Nickfromwales]

10 hours ago, G and J said:

Here’s the valve

Does the front fascia plate allow access to those two brass hex inserts? Eg, when installed, will they need to be tiled over or is the plate big enough to have them left accessible? 

[G and J]

Will chk this eve. And report back......thnx

[G and J]

The plate is big enough to cover the lot, and I could get the tiler to leave holes where the Allen socket bits are….  I’ve not studied the thing enough to understand future maintenance access (but really must soon).  But….
 

Doesn’t that mean that water getting behind the plate will get into the wall?  (I'm tired from a busy day on site, so if that’s a stupid question then I claim immunity from leg pulling on the grounds of exhaustion and you shouldn’t mock the afflicted!)

[Nickfromwales]

The hex bits are usually non returns and can fail, so you defo need JUST clear access to these; don’t let the tiler cut away any more than is necessary. 
 

You put a small bead of clear CT1 around the top and each of the sides of the plate, and seal it to the tiles. Don’t seal the bottom as that gets left as a drip. 

[G and J]

A thought, and maybe not a good one.   
 

My shower valves have 25mm compression joints.  The thread on these is 1/2” BSP, so the same as a basin tap.  
 

Can I just remove the nut and olive and use a HEP2O tap connector straight on to these?   Am I missing something obvious?

 

 

[Nickfromwales]

18 hours ago, G and J said:

A thought, and maybe not a good one.   
 

My shower valves have 25mm compression joints.  The thread on these is 1/2” BSP, so the same as a basin tap.  
 

Can I just remove the nut and olive and use a HEP2O tap connector straight on to these?   Am I missing something obvious?

 

 

The larger ones should be 3/4” x 15mm so you have copper compression not BSP ‘irons’ to connect to. 
 

The difference is one has a chamfered internal edge to accept the olive (you find the same opposing chamfer inside the compression nut.

 

The BSP irons have a flat face, which is what you’d connect a tap connector to. 
 

Tap connectors have either a rubber or a nylon washer to squash up against the fiat face. 
 

However!

 

The good people at Hepworth do a tap connector which is supplied with 2 different profiles for the rubber seal, and one is chamfered; the flat ‘square’ one goes in the bin or the spare’s tray, and that chamfered rubber will work for you here.

 

 

If the 3/4” fittings can be wound out, you can put a 3/4” bush in 

 

 

and then PTFE these and wind them into the bushes

 

[G and J]

 

 

If I (G, that is), wasn’t so ugly I’d offer to kiss you @Nickfromwales

 

 

[Nickfromwales]

42 minutes ago, G and J said:

 

 

 

If I (G, that is), wasn’t so ugly I’d offer to kiss you @Nickfromwales

 

 

Hold that thought for a moment, and get 1x of that fitting and see if the plastic centre will go into the 15mm compression connection, and THEN we can pucker up.

 

I’m thinking Officer and a Gentleman theme playing in the background for completeness.

[G and J]

11 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

Hold that thought for a moment, and get 1x of that fitting and see if the plastic centre will go into the 15mm compression connection, and THEN we can pucker up.

 

I’m thinking Officer and a Gentleman theme playing in the background for completeness.

Where’s your sense of adventure?  And anyway, I’ve got a multi tool and a lump hammer, so what could go wrong? (Opens window for small Screwfix order…..)

[G and J]

13 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said:

I’m thinking Officer and a Gentleman theme playing in the background for completeness.

Plus, Im more of a Laurel and Hardy theme type of guy.

[Nickfromwales]

8 minutes ago, G and J said:

Plus, Im more of a Laurel and Hardy theme type of guy.

Less romantic, but I’m a married man so will take whatever I can get 😜