Nordica or Rationel?

[Silly Man]

Hi, 

 

Is he interested in people's thoughts on Nordica vs Rationel, triple glazing aluclad. Currently in leaning towards Nordica but there's very little information on their fitting and from doing the reading on this forum, fitting is critical. 

 

Thank you

 

[JohnMo]

Just now, Silly Man said:

reading on this forum, fitting is critical.

Yep if you don't fit them they don't of perform very well at all. 😁

[Silly Man]

@marmic how are your windows? Did you have any specialist installation done as on a previous post you mentioned "supply and install inc air tightness and weather seals" is that not standard from Nordica?

Edited Saturday at 12:20 by Silly Man
Added in quote

[nod]

I would say measuring is critical 

Some of the window fitting on here have been pretty bad Large gaps filled with foam 

We found Rationels Supply only quote Ridiculous 

[marmic]

 

Nordica have been brilliant and no BS from day 1.

Transparency when asked with regard to product/manufacturer.

(companies who rebrand and claim they are the manufacturers annoy me, and you may not even know what you are actually buying!)

Site team great.

Some slight adjustments required from manufacturing (viking) - Nordica will be returning when scaffold down so windows can be fully opened to do this.

Nordica also use Slowinscy which was our original preference and slighty lower cost, but lead times dictated our decision.

 

we are undertaking a preliminary air tightness test so any leaks can be plugged before we plasterboard etc. I'm not expecting any issues as been belt and braces throughout, but you never know!  with all windows and doors shut you can really feel the pressure when opening the door which is an excellent sign.

 

Simon also supplied and installed the extended sills with upstands to sides too.  In our case wider than windows almost right to the reveals - we'll be lining with timber to match the cladding. Again ensure accurate dims.  Extended sills required as windows set back - windows were manufactured with increased dimension at base to ensure a fall on sill.  (other suppliers / manufacturers didn't offer or understand - and those who did listen were talking about making windows smaller and adding packers on site - not good!) 

 

For door thresholds we used aluminium chequerplate from https://www.chequerplatedirect.co.uk/checker-plate/made-to-measure-door-threshold-cover/  brilliant company/product - bent to required angle too (these are bonded direct to slightly sloped chamfered compacfoam) 

 

Installation can be to different levels of performance - in our case to passivhaus stds including air tightness. Also weather seals to external.  We decided early on we had to go full supply and install - although were tempted by supply only to save money but just didn't feel comfortable with added risk.

Some manufacturers didn't offer supply and install but still quoted supply only and provided details of approved installers claiming this is as good - it isn't as still adds risk as splits responsibility.

 

Suppliers/manufacturers that do offer supply and install be careful and read everything, there was one for example that promised the earth but the quotation firmly excluded weather sealing and air tightness - their rep was arrogant too!

 

And 110% agree with nod - get the dims correct (measure in more than one position), check openings square and include any discrepancies with survey info, and also agree tolerance    

 

rationel / dovista / velfac didn't offer supply and install, nor supply only, but instead forwarded enquiry to one of their supply and install distributors which is fine.  This company also offer other brands. I had the impression they would have probably done a good job (???) albeit they missed 3 windows and the price tag was still ridiculous! So was a non-starter

 

based on my experience going out to the window and door market the words caveat emptor come to mind! be careful out there! 

 

[Benpointer]

Not quite answering the question but we used Norrsken for our 3g alu-clad windows and doors and they have been excellent throughout.  Their team of fitters were particularly good: prompt, friendly, careful, tidy and flexible...

 

 

[marmic]

viking?

[FarmerN]

We bought Rationel windows from John Knight Glass on the Wirral , they supplied and fitted.

I think they did a really good job, we did specify fitting to Passive standards when ordering. Windows and Patio door been in two years now and still pleased.

[Silly Man]

12 hours ago, Benpointer said:

Not quite answering the question but we used Norrsken for our 3g alu-clad windows and doors and they have been excellent throughout.  Their team of fitters were particularly good: prompt, friendly, careful, tidy and flexible...

 

 

Thank you for replying but unfortunately Norrsken are way out of my budget.

[Silly Man]

13 hours ago, marmic said:

 

Nordica have been brilliant and no BS from day 1.

Transparency when asked with regard to product/manufacturer.

(companies who rebrand and claim they are the manufacturers annoy me, and you may not even know what you are actually buying!)

Site team great.

Some slight adjustments required from manufacturing (viking) - Nordica will be returning when scaffold down so windows can be fully opened to do this.

Nordica also use Slowinscy which was our original preference and slighty lower cost, but lead times dictated our decision.

 

we are undertaking a preliminary air tightness test so any leaks can be plugged before we plasterboard etc. I'm not expecting any issues as been belt and braces throughout, but you never know!  with all windows and doors shut you can really feel the pressure when opening the door which is an excellent sign.

 

Simon also supplied and installed the extended sills with upstands to sides too.  In our case wider than windows almost right to the reveals - we'll be lining with timber to match the cladding. Again ensure accurate dims.  Extended sills required as windows set back - windows were manufactured with increased dimension at base to ensure a fall on sill.  (other suppliers / manufacturers didn't offer or understand - and those who did listen were talking about making windows smaller and adding packers on site - not good!) 

 

For door thresholds we used aluminium chequerplate from https://www.chequerplatedirect.co.uk/checker-plate/made-to-measure-door-threshold-cover/  brilliant company/product - bent to required angle too (these are bonded direct to slightly sloped chamfered compacfoam) 

 

Installation can be to different levels of performance - in our case to passivhaus stds including air tightness. Also weather seals to external.  We decided early on we had to go full supply and install - although were tempted by supply only to save money but just didn't feel comfortable with added risk.

Some manufacturers didn't offer supply and install but still quoted supply only and provided details of approved installers claiming this is as good - it isn't as still adds risk as splits responsibility.

 

Suppliers/manufacturers that do offer supply and install be careful and read everything, there was one for example that promised the earth but the quotation firmly excluded weather sealing and air tightness - their rep was arrogant too!

 

And 110% agree with nod - get the dims correct (measure in more than one position), check openings square and include any discrepancies with survey info, and also agree tolerance    

 

rationel / dovista / velfac didn't offer supply and install, nor supply only, but instead forwarded enquiry to one of their supply and install distributors which is fine.  This company also offer other brands. I had the impression they would have probably done a good job (???) albeit they missed 3 windows and the price tag was still ridiculous! So was a non-starter

 

based on my experience going out to the window and door market the words caveat emptor come to mind! be careful out there! 

 

Thank you for taking the time to answer, I'm not sure I understand the points you made around the extended sills but I will check with Nordica as well as checking in installation. Do you have any pictures you might be willing to share please?

 

Why did you go for another company for threshold, I was under the impression that Nordica supplied fibreglass threshold on install?

Edited yesterday at 08:49 by Silly Man

[marmic]

43 minutes ago, Silly Man said:

Thank you for replying but unfortunately Norrsken are way out of my budget.

and you will get the same windows (ie from the same manufacturer) from elsewhere for less!

[marmic]

3 hours ago, Silly Man said:

Thank you for taking the time to answer, I'm not sure I understand the points you made around the extended sills but I will check with Nordica as well as checking in installation. Do you have any pictures you might be willing to share please?

 

Why did you go for another company for threshold, I was under the impression that Nordica supplied fibreglass threshold on install?

yes they provided door thresholds (all from factory) but didn't offer extended.  I guess every job would be quite different - our doors are set right back.  This to ensure a good finish that was also easy. And keeping the level approach straightforward 

[Benpointer]

10 hours ago, marmic said:

and you will get the same windows (ie from the same manufacturer) from elsewhere for less!

You reckon?  

 

Can you point me at who else is selling the Norrsken P33 window?

[marmic]

8 hours ago, Benpointer said:

You reckon?  

 

Can you point me at who else is selling the Norrsken P33 window?

You'll need to establish what a P33 actually is.   ie  the manufacturer / product that has been rebranded - probably.  From memory and as far as I know they mainly buy from viking which should therefore be a good product, and can also be procured from elsewhere.  They are imo highly unlikley to tell you however and will probably go blue in the face insisting they manufacture. Should be able to work it out from drawings / images.   Although i do vaguely recall somebody sayng on this forum they had bought viking, which I somehow doubt, but you never know!?!?   I also recall reading a post where they had procured product from 2 manufacturers on a project to satisfy requirements - which is fine of course.  Keep digging for the facts!  My initial enquiries and due diligence started about a year ago so I could well be out of date......... 

 

Rebranding / white labelling is commonplace in all industry, but with big ticket items such as windows and doors I personally like transparency and to know exactly what I am buying.  Albeit often it really isn't an issue - goods sold in supermarkets for example!

In my employed job a few competitors claim they are manufacturers and buy from different sources different quality products and rebrand under the same name/product code - and supply whatever fits the negotiated price and to retain required margin, sometimes even providing a lower performance system than ordered as visually identical but means more profit and/or being more competitive. No I'm not saying what I do, but it is construction industry. 

 

[Benpointer]

13 hours ago, marmic said:

You'll need to establish what a P33 actually is.   ie  the manufacturer / product that has been rebranded - probably.  From memory and as far as I know they mainly buy from viking which should therefore be a good product, and can also be procured from elsewhere.  They are imo highly unlikley to tell you however and will probably go blue in the face insisting they manufacture. Should be able to work it out from drawings / images.   Although i do vaguely recall somebody sayng on this forum they had bought viking, which I somehow doubt, but you never know!?!?   I also recall reading a post where they had procured product from 2 manufacturers on a project to satisfy requirements - which is fine of course.  Keep digging for the facts!  My initial enquiries and due diligence started about a year ago so I could well be out of date......... 

 

Rebranding / white labelling is commonplace in all industry, but with big ticket items such as windows and doors I personally like transparency and to know exactly what I am buying.  Albeit often it really isn't an issue - goods sold in supermarkets for example!

In my employed job a few competitors claim they are manufacturers and buy from different sources different quality products and rebrand under the same name/product code - and supply whatever fits the negotiated price and to retain required margin, sometimes even providing a lower performance system than ordered as visually identical but means more profit and/or being more competitive. No I'm not saying what I do, but it is construction industry. 

 

It's the other way round Viking own Norrsken.  

 

Norrsken made no secret of this in our dealings with them - quite the opposite, they flag it as a strength.

[marmic]

is that recent??   viking also supply others so still worth shopping!

[marmic]

https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/07818179/filing-history

 

be interesting how the branding develops and who they supply................