Call point and control panel issues

[Pocster]

Rental .

Smoke alarms are interlinked and have no control panel .

Honeywell control panel is just for the 4 call points ( still want to call them break glass ) . Randomly it will show a fault on one . Panel beeps to alert you . Enter code , cancel beep , then reset panel and ‘fault’ disappears

There are only 3 components here ; panel , all the call points , the wiring .

I’ve been told a ‘load resistor’ can be put across the call points to prevent it showing a fault .

The supposed call point that fails appears to be random also .

This resistor doesn’t sound particularly appealing to me .

This ok though ? . Panel can go weeks or even months with no issues .

My only other solution was new panel and call points . Then if still errors must be the wiring .

 

Edited January 29 by Pocster

[dpmiller]

are the call points a normaly open/ closed switch, or instead some kind of addressed device?

[Pocster]

1 hour ago, dpmiller said:

are the call points a normaly open/ closed switch, or instead some kind of addressed device?

Not sure . Would assume just normally opened or closed . No complexity of an addressed device .

[dpmiller]

6 hours ago, Pocster said:

Not sure . Would assume just normally opened or closed . No complexity of an addressed device .

well if they're just normally_open, a resistor might be used to control any stray voltages that could be induced in the wiring

[Pocster]

44 minutes ago, dpmiller said:

well if they're just normally_open, a resistor might be used to control any stray voltages that could be induced in the wiring

Yes . But I was informed by another that if a real fault occurred on the call point it would never register as a fault on the panel .

; if resistor installed .

Tenant pushes call point , nothing happens , tenant burns to death etc etc … 🫤

[dpmiller]

would depend on the resistor.

[Pocster]

17 minutes ago, dpmiller said:

would depend on the resistor.

Isn’t that tricky though ? . Intermittent fault , resistor enough to stop fake fault but ok with real fault ? 🫤

Just sounds a bit bodgey ; as you know that ain’t my style 🙄🫤🙄

[sharpener]

21 hours ago, Pocster said:

Isn’t that tricky though ? . Intermittent fault , resistor enough to stop fake fault but ok with real fault ? 🫤

Just sounds a bit bodgey ; as you know that ain’t my style 🙄🫤🙄

 

Leakage or induced pickup from other wiring is a real possibility depending on what the input circuit impedance on the panel is. Might have a pull-up resistor and a proper voltage comparator. Or might just be a CMOS input pin.

 

If product is well-designed it will have some RC network and/or Schmitt trigger input to make it noise proof - ah I see you mention Honeywell so all bets are off.

So determine by experiment what value resistor would be recognised as a contact closure i.e. triggers alarm. Then fit resistor 10x this value. Unlikely to fail to danger, in a real "break glass" situation it would be shorted by the switch contacts anyway.

OTOH if the switch opens on break glass then I can't see the resistor doing anything at all. This is potentially a better method as it constantly tests the wiring continuity. And a loose terminal screw would cause an intermittent false alarm. So you need to find out which way round it works.

 

 

Edited January 31 by sharpener

[Pocster]

5 minutes ago, sharpener said:

So you need to find out which way round it works.

No idea . Being dicked around by fire alarm company who want £165+vat to look at it . As the fault won’t be present then that’s pointless . But do have another company coming Monday to look for free … so I’ll see what he says , I’ll ask open / closed circuit on call points .

[sharpener]

When all else fails an old-fashioned analogue multimeter is your friend.

[Alan Ambrose]

Has it always done this, or is this a new thing? Suggest checking the obvious things first - backup battery, tightness of all connections at panel and at all call points. Also scouring the fire alarm forums … assuming those kind of forums exist. If it’s been doing this from the start it may be a Honeywell design issue. Easiest thing probably is to get the lot replaced - probably not v expensive.

 

Yeah, you could try and do a proper diagnosis, but intermittent faults are notoriously hard. Also, while personally I’ll try to do anything and everything as DIY - making a modification to a fire system, in a rental, even if the manufacturer has screwed up the design, is probably something even I wouldn’t do .

[Pocster]

4 hours ago, Alan Ambrose said:

Has it always done this, or is this a new thing? Suggest checking the obvious things first - backup battery, tightness of all connections at panel and at all call points. Also scouring the fire alarm forums … assuming those kind of forums exist. If it’s been doing this from the start it may be a Honeywell design issue. Easiest thing probably is to get the lot replaced - probably not v expensive.

 

Yeah, you could try and do a proper diagnosis, but intermittent faults are notoriously hard. Also, while personally I’ll try to do anything and everything as DIY - making a modification to a fire system, in a rental, even if the manufacturer has screwed up the design, is probably something even I wouldn’t do .

It was fine for a few years and then random faults started to appear .
Electricians etc have all looked at it even with the fault ( light ! ) present . Nothing ever found .

I agree ; as a rental I’m not going to touch this …

 

Probably get panel and call points all replaced first .

Another guy looking Monday foc …

Edited February 1 by Pocster