Smart central heating advice

[tvrulesme]

I have a central heating system in our old bunglow which is due to be added to with an additional 3 UFH zones as part of an extention build.

 

Currently the thermostat is a bit of a hack as when I moved the boiler to what is currently the garage, the thermostat struggled to connect via RF due to very thick walls in this old property.

 

Looking to upgrade this and add some Smartness and control for UFH. I'm currently narrowing down options to:
Tado - v3 system doesn't appear to have extenders which worries me. X looks very expensive. Customer support from reading on forums seems to be very slow and with rubbish answers

Drayton Wiser - Limited support for UFH. People seem to moan a lot about connectivity

Heatmiser - We have this at a previous home and after an argument with their returns department I swore I would never buy again but may have to bite humble pie

 

Any other systems I should be looking at or any of the worries above I should not be worried about? House layout with existing rads and proposed UFH zones below. Zone 4 already exists and is working well

 

 

My main requirements are:

• Must be able to communicate through thick stone walls
• Wall thermostats would ideally have integrated humidity sensor. I’ve been battling (and mostly winning) against a lot of damp so want to ensure I am still in control. Ideally would not require separate humidity sensors
• Should be controllable remotely. 
• Needs the ability to have multi zone underfloor heating integration
• Will need multiple thermostats. I can go wired but would prefer the choice of battery or wired

My boiler is a Viessmann Vitodens 100-w

 

[Pocster]

I have used geniushub on some properties for years . Worth looking into that also .

[tvrulesme]

10 minutes ago, Pocster said:

I have used geniushub on some properties for years . Worth looking into that also .

Looks lovely but pretty pricey. I can pick up Drayton TRVs on ebay usually for about £27. £90 a pop per rad is going to bankrupt me. 

 

Liking the Home Assistant integration though

[Pocster]

1 minute ago, tvrulesme said:

Looks lovely but pretty pricey. I can pick up Drayton TRVs on ebay usually for about £27. £90 a pop per rad is going to bankrupt me. 

 

Liking the Home Assistant integration though

Or I suppose if you have home assistant anyway you could just grab trv’s , actuators , thermostats etc yourself - cheap as chips from AliExpress etc .

[JohnMo]

Be careful with the number of zone and their size. Small zone means boiler short cycling. Which in turn results in bigger than expected energy bills.

 

Humidity issues indicate an issue with ventilation, use ventilation to resolve dampness. You only need thermostats with humidity sensing, for cooling, not for heating.

 

I like Computherm thermostats they are not smart but are good and transmit through think concrete walls, and into a foil lined shed without issue.

 

UFH is best left to tick away on a low flow temp.

[tvrulesme]

4 minutes ago, Pocster said:

Or I suppose if you have home assistant anyway you could just grab trv’s , actuators , thermostats etc yourself - cheap as chips from AliExpress etc .

I did consider this but we're thinking of possibly renting out this house and I've got to be honest, the wife struggles with my home automation, let alone guests

[JohnMo]

5 minutes ago, tvrulesme said:

Home Assistant integration though

Why not just a Shelly H&T (or similar) in each room, integrate into a min max helper and use a generic thermostat, do it in home assistant. Then bounce the signal about via wifi?

 

 

[Pocster]

Just now, tvrulesme said:

I did consider this but we're thinking of possibly renting out this house and I've got to be honest, the wife struggles with my home automation, let alone guests

The problem I found ( with tenants ) is if say a trv drops off the network then you need to attend to add it back in ; I.e guests won’t do it . Also anything battery powered can be an issue . If you live nearby then less of an issue .

[tvrulesme]

4 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

Be careful with the number of zone and their size. Small zone means boiler short cycling. Which in turn results in bigger than expected energy bills.

Thank you. Very good point. I'll look into this

 

4 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

Humidity issues indicate an issue with ventilation, use ventilation to resolve dampness. You only need thermostats with humidity sensing, for cooling, not for heating.

Most issues have now been resolved but I want to continously monitor going forward given how much effort I've invested in sorting

 

5 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

I like Computherm thermostats they are not smart but are good and transmit through think concrete walls, and into a foil lined shed without issue.

Not heard of these. I'll take a look. Issue is the need to control remotely so would ideally need smart. This place is 45 mins from my home and I often log in and wack on the heating while I'm driving there. Remote access is a must

[tvrulesme]

2 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

Why not just a Shelly H&T (or similar) in each room, integrate into a min max helper and use a generic thermostat, do it in home assistant. Then bounce the signal about via wifi?

 

 

Love Shelly, hate the H&T. It was a PITA before I gave up and returned. I'm trying to minimise gadgets and wires everywhere so if wall thermostat measures humidity saves having another device

[tvrulesme]

3 minutes ago, Pocster said:

The problem I found ( with tenants ) is if say a trv drops off the network then you need to attend to add it back in ; I.e guests won’t do it . Also anything battery powered can be an issue . If you live nearby then less of an issue .

Will be short term let, probably AirBNB so worst case it will be out for a weekend. I go there weekly so not too worried about keeping batteries charged

[lookseehear]

We have the Drayton system. 7 or 8 smart TRVs, 4 room thermostats. I wouldn't buy again. We needed three of the range extenders to get to all TRVs and even then some are a little low on range and I get the occasional disconnection notification.

 

The reason it works for us now is that our house is so poorly insulated it means we can warm the rooms we're using, not the whole house, and we can avoid having any rooms too warm (19 is a treat for us - typically rooms are set to 17 and 18 or 18.5 if being occupied). When we have a better insulated, more airtight house I would have regular TRVs and try to size radiators to the room rather than try to zone too much, as I understand in general it isn't a very efficient way of heating.

 

I also hate having to go round replacing batteries. I assumed I'd be able to use rechargeables but they only last half as long before the battery warnings start pinging. I won't buy any smart home products with batteries in future, it only adds to the faff. I also want to avoid anything needing range extenders because reliability just isn't good enough at this point.

[JohnMo]

2 hours ago, lookseehear said:

hate having to go round replacing batteries. I assumed I'd be able to use rechargeables but they only last half as long before the battery warnings start pinging

Just had that with my front door, tried to use rechargeable and only getting a couple of weeks out of them. Just bought some lithium AA batteries supposed to last about twice as long as Duracell's