KineticBuser Posted November 25 Share Posted November 25 Trying to understand what is happening with my UFH and also if my logic is correct. 3 bed flat, Lounge and 2 bedroom upstairs 700 Sqft - 1 bedroom downstairs 300 sqft (guess) UFH was working, but one room was always cold, over the summer had some pipes moved and then heating didnt work Centralised Hot Water system The heat pump is all controlled by Eon (but taken cover off) The pump is grundfos alpha2 l 15-40 The UFH is polypipe What i did Refilled system Depressure Manifold Took off Flow Meter and made sure working For each circuit (4) put the flow meter to 1 L/M as when higher the room didnt get hotter State I now have the flat warm finally but its taken days, and i was getting 0.1 degree increase an hour in the rooms (but this may have been from zero as no water in system before i started) The water coming in from the flat is very hot on the pipe, the water into the manifold was 24c but seems to increase as the rooms get hotter (but floors dont feel warm) The Grunfos system when you turn on defaults to 1 but manual says it should be on setting 3 for UFH at which point the flow meters jump, however in the 10yrs in the flat ive never changed it Questions Have i got an airlock, the water isnt hot enough under the floor or a flow rate issue? Is the Grundfos on the right setting? If i changed this then im guessing more flow = most cost and if the water isnt hot enough for the flow im just pushing cold water through? Everything ive read says that UFH should be set to 1 L/M i presume this is per circuit?, i dont really see how i can accurately adjust this between 0 and 1 on a float to balance the system. What is the black RAVK valve doing? There is a adjuster to right of the Grundos that seems to do nothing There is a valve near the Thermostat that has the temp of the water going into the thermostat - not sure what that does either. Also is it possible the system was just so cold its taken this long to get heat through it all? Obviously want the house to be warm but would like to not bankrupt myself in the process Thanks for the advice Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiamJones Posted November 26 Share Posted November 26 Christ that looks like a lot of bits to go wrong. I can only comment on flow rates. It’s not one number suits all I’m afraid. You can work it out for yourself using LoopCad available freely on the internet. It’s a combination of loop length, pipe diameter, flow temp and heat loss. You should know the first 3, the last one you can work out from Jeremy’s infamous spreadsheet on here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LiamJones Posted November 26 Share Posted November 26 I guess it’s possible you don’t know the first 1 if you didn’t lay it. Some pipe has markings on it per meter. You can do the diff to work out the length. Else, grab a thermal camera and check where the pipe runs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Carroll Posted November 27 Share Posted November 27 On 25/11/2024 at 13:38, KineticBuser said: Trying to understand what is happening with my UFH and also if my logic is correct. 3 bed flat, Lounge and 2 bedroom upstairs 700 Sqft - 1 bedroom downstairs 300 sqft (guess) UFH was working, but one room was always cold, over the summer had some pipes moved and then heating didnt work Centralised Hot Water system The heat pump is all controlled by Eon (but taken cover off) The pump is grundfos alpha2 l 15-40 The UFH is polypipe What i did Refilled system Depressure Manifold Took off Flow Meter and made sure working For each circuit (4) put the flow meter to 1 L/M as when higher the room didnt get hotter State I now have the flat warm finally but its taken days, and i was getting 0.1 degree increase an hour in the rooms (but this may have been from zero as no water in system before i started) The water coming in from the flat is very hot on the pipe, the water into the manifold was 24c but seems to increase as the rooms get hotter (but floors dont feel warm) The Grunfos system when you turn on defaults to 1 but manual says it should be on setting 3 for UFH at which point the flow meters jump, however in the 10yrs in the flat ive never changed it Questions Have i got an airlock, the water isnt hot enough under the floor or a flow rate issue? Is the Grundfos on the right setting? If i changed this then im guessing more flow = most cost and if the water isnt hot enough for the flow im just pushing cold water through? Everything ive read says that UFH should be set to 1 L/M i presume this is per circuit?, i dont really see how i can accurately adjust this between 0 and 1 on a float to balance the system. What is the black RAVK valve doing? There is a adjuster to right of the Grundos that seems to do nothing There is a valve near the Thermostat that has the temp of the water going into the thermostat - not sure what that does either. Also is it possible the system was just so cold its taken this long to get heat through it all? Obviously want the house to be warm but would like to not bankrupt myself in the process Thanks for the advice I thought I replied to this, anyway, That pump setting of proportional pressure PP1 is not suitable, apart from being far too low, for UFH, suggest setting to constant pressure CP2, (LED on far right, no4), this is a constant pressure of 3.0M, then set your flowmwters to 2 to 2.5 LPM and see how it goes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KineticBuser Posted December 2 Author Share Posted December 2 (edited) Thanks @John Carroll I thought you had as well (weird) and your advice and reading manuals i understand the flow control and pumps however whilst i was working that out i seem to have gone backwards, when trying to work out how it all worked i took off ATP Pipe Thermostat off the Manifold not realising what it did. The ATP Pipe Thermostat is back on the flow meter Manifold and set to 60c Not sure if thats caused the issue but the Heat Exchanger for the UFH is stone cold, Whilst the Heat Exchanger for the water is hot and working The pipe out of the UFH Heat Exchanger into the Manifold is also cold and reading 15c The pipe that feeds into the Differential Pressure Controller is hot (and then its difficult to tell due to thicker pipes but by time its gone through the RAVK Controller and the Thermo Activator its cold The Thermo Activator i think is ok, it says its naturally closed, and when i shut down power the black middle bit of plastic goes down, and when i power back up and the polypipe controller kicks in it gradually protrudes out Picture below, but i cant work out what to do next This is the system https://assets.danfoss.com/documents/353645/AQ082486478026en-010501.pdf Thanks again Edited December 2 by KineticBuser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted December 2 Share Posted December 2 You have written the steps you did in the first post. The main thing you have done On 25/11/2024 at 13:38, KineticBuser said: over the summer had some pipes moved and then heating didnt work On 25/11/2024 at 13:38, KineticBuser said: Refilled system Depressure Manifold Took off Flow Meter and made sure working For each circuit (4) put the flow meter to 1 L/M as when higher the room didnt get hotter I assume you took a note of the setting before you started fiddling? Confirm. Can you set them back to where they started? Can you set the flow rates to each loop to 2.5L/min? Is one or more loops achieving flow? Are all or none achieving flow? Those not achieving flow are likely to have air trapped and they need bleeding. While doing this monitor the kW on the heat meter (Sonometer) and report. The heat meter will also tell you flow rate, and temperatures, just press the black button and it will scroll they different readings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KineticBuser Posted December 2 Author Share Posted December 2 Yes have all the settings and put the flow meters back to original - the flow meters are showing flow however the pipes are all cold Will check all the Sonometer settings and report back Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KineticBuser Posted December 2 Author Share Posted December 2 34591 k Wh 0.008 m over h 0.059 k W 48 over an l - 42 over celcius dt 6.3 celcius Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted December 3 Share Posted December 3 What are the red flow meters showing on the UFH? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KineticBuser Posted December 3 Author Share Posted December 3 All showing at 2m /l as thermostats on in all rooms and actuators are open Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted December 3 Share Posted December 3 12 hours ago, KineticBuser said: 0.008 m over h 0.059 k W This (above) would indicate you have no flow and almost no heat. Are these reading still true when flowing? 2 hours ago, KineticBuser said: All showing at 2m /l as thermostats on in all rooms and actuators are open Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KineticBuser Posted December 3 Author Share Posted December 3 Yeah the flow meters are showing at 2 - have turned off all but 1 room to isolate, i can hear the pump going as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KineticBuser Posted December 3 Author Share Posted December 3 (edited) Its now showing 0.027 m over h and 0.280 k W What should these values read when its operating? Then dropped to 0.000 Lost Edited December 3 by KineticBuser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted December 3 Share Posted December 3 I would suspect you have air either in the heat exchanger loop or a valve closed to stop water circulation through the heat exchanger part of the system. 0.027m³/h is only 0.45l/min. So pump is pumping water around the UFH loops, but nothing is making its way to the heat exchanger. Using the drawing from the manual and make sure all valves are open. Then if all is ok you will need the manual to understand how to get air out the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KineticBuser Posted December 3 Author Share Posted December 3 Thanks so not venting using the pump but the actual heat exchanger part? All the valves are open so guess it must be an air issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dpmiller Posted December 4 Share Posted December 4 On 02/12/2024 at 22:22, KineticBuser said: Thanks @John Carroll I thought you had as well (weird) and your advice and reading manuals i understand the flow control and pumps however whilst i was working that out i seem to have gone backwards, when trying to work out how it all worked i took off ATP Pipe Thermostat off the Manifold not realising what it did. The ATP Pipe Thermostat is back on the flow meter Manifold and set to 60c Not sure if thats caused the issue but the Heat Exchanger for the UFH is stone cold, Whilst the Heat Exchanger for the water is hot and working The pipe out of the UFH Heat Exchanger into the Manifold is also cold and reading 15c The pipe that feeds into the Differential Pressure Controller is hot (and then its difficult to tell due to thicker pipes but by time its gone through the RAVK Controller and the Thermo Activator its cold The Thermo Activator i think is ok, it says its naturally closed, and when i shut down power the black middle bit of plastic goes down, and when i power back up and the polypipe controller kicks in it gradually protrudes out Picture below, but i cant work out what to do next This is the system https://assets.danfoss.com/documents/353645/AQ082486478026en-010501.pdf Thanks again Is that actuator being energised? Is it actually opening? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KineticBuser Posted December 4 Author Share Posted December 4 Yes the thermo activator is opened (black bit in middle is raised when requested) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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