Just recd an email from architect saying I need a Principal Designer and a Principal Contractor for my project

[-rick-]

Until this thread I hadn't looked at the BSA side of this (have previously looked at the CDM/HSE side).

 

After some looking around it appears the following document is referred to as the way to assess competence for this role:

 

https://www.bsigroup.com/en-GB/insights-and-media/insights/brochures/pas-8672-framework-for-competence-of-individual-principal-contractors/

 

I downloaded it and it's pretty big, obviously not aimed at self builds.

[JohnMo]

1 hour ago, -rick- said:

Possess a thorough understanding of construction processes, safety protocols, and regulatory requirements.

You do not need to be a master builder, plumber, electrician, etc etc. you need to have an overview what is being done, why and jointly assess risks with technical experts (trades).

 

Also if you can't meets 4, you can't do 2 for example.

 

Each discipline is the expert, they are called in at appropriate times. You discuss what there plan is; do they need other resources to be provided, i.e. scaffolding in not there or in the way. If the electrician wants to go live you make sure, with him it's safe to do so.

 

If you can't assess, if your competent - good chance you are not. So get someone in.

Edited December 4 by JohnMo

[saveasteading]

48 minutes ago, WannabeBob said:

if you’re self building and not in the industry, realistically you need a main builder. 

Interesting.

It's a good point about the difference between building regs and safety. They shouldn't use the same term.

 

I'd say that competence is required rather than expertise. A lot is common sense.

For building regs it is a contact point and reasonable site management.

 

For safety, a lot can be learnt from hse leaflets, all on line. Eg does the first time self builder know about ladder use?

Does a seasoned builder know it, or care?

 

But it is a serious matter and safety should not be shrugged off.

[WannabeBob]

33 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

 

If you can't assess, if your competent - good chance you are not. So get someone in.

 

Yeah, it sounds like as a self builder unless you’re in the industry, you’ve done it before, or have dedicated enough research or training to assume competency, you’re far more limited in options. 

 

My initial plan of hiring individual trades and doing some non critical bits myself are quickly evaporating. 

[WannabeBob]

1 minute ago, saveasteading said:

For safety, a lot can be learnt from hse leaflets, all on line. Eg does the first time self builder know about ladder use?

Does a seasoned builder know it, or care?

 

But it is a serious matter and safety should not be shrugged off.

With the CDM/HSE aspect, I was just going to stage it such that it was clear who was in control of that phase, i.e. ground works and foundation by the ground works crew, trying not to overlap trades etc.

 

But the BRPC roles require explicit handing over from previous to next appointment, and the new BRPC needs to review the previous stages - not something an electrician would care for?!

[saveasteading]

I'm not going to discourage you engaging someone to do this for you. However don't assume that they will be good at it, or that you won't. Splitting the job up and getting risk assessments from each trade is a simple start. 

Even on big projects I tried to do this as the greatest risk was the interfaces between different trades.

[JohnMo]

28 minutes ago, WannabeBob said:

My initial plan of hiring individual trades and doing some non critical bits myself are quickly evaporating.

There is no reason for them to evaporate. Read, read a lot more. Building a house, isn't rocket science. You do one thing at a time step by step. We did ours during COVID, so made it easy to have single trades on site, because it was that or nothing. 

 

I revised and made sense of drawing most days, to make things easy for the trades. Using nothing fancy, just PDF editing. This helped us as client, make design decisions easier and ahead of the obvious question coming. Most important job, is being a dog's body tidy up after everyone has gone home, get rid of trip hazards, litter etc. double check what's been done is to your satisfaction.

 

But you are there to answer questions, without them being answered in a timely manner means delay.

[WannabeBob]

Thanks! Yeah I’m going to be doing a whole lot more reading and researching, and maybe I can then convince myself I’m competent 🫡

[EdHat]

Just to drive home the point, as others have said, and hopefully provide some clarity, the original post refers to the principal designer (PD) role under the building regulations. This is a separate role to the PD role under CDM, but just to confuse things they decided to use the same titles.

 

CDM principal designer

Responsible for ensuring H&S has been considered in the design in terms of construction and future maintenance and any risks are designed out and preparing H&S file at the end of the project. Doesn't necessarily have to have designed anything themselves, as designers have responsibilities under regulations.

 

CDM principal contractor

Responsible for H&S onsite during construction phase. Prepare the construction phase plan, provide welfare facilities and coordinate contractors. Basically manage the site, individual contractors still have H&S responsibilities under the regulations.

 

BR principal designer

Responsible for ensuring and declaring that the design is compliant with the regs. Architects should really be doing this under there role in completing technical design stage anyway. The only real additional requirement is they must sign a declaration. Again, designers still have responsibility for there own portion.

OP there should be no issue in architect continuing to act in this role during the works but you will have to consult with them if there are any changes to the design.

 

BR principal contractor

Responsible for ensuring construction is as per the design, and therefore compliant with regs. Has to sign a declaration on completion and therefore assume a lot of risk.

 

 

PAS 8671:2022 is where to find the full details of the PD role but there is a brief summary of that and PAS 8672:2022 here: https://consultations.hse.gov.uk/bsr/building-safety-competence-information-pc-pd/supporting_documents/Building safety competence information for principal contractors and principal designers.pdf 

 

If you are competent you can be the client and fulfill all these roles. PD and PC roles under the building regs don't place any more requirements on the lead designer and main contractor then they would usually have contractually anyway. The purpose is basically to clear up the fact that it is not the building control's responsibility to ensure design and construction comply with the regs and if you manage to get something non-compliant approved and signed off, and it later comes to light, there is someone to be held responsible.