Vaillant ASHP Cooling - With Third Party UFH Controls

[Blooda]

Set up is Vaillant Arotherm plus. With cooling resister.

Rad upstairs - controlled by Sensocomfort.

UFH downstairs controlled by Third Party Emmetti controls.  in normal use when calling for heat on the Emetti room stat - the emetti control centre opens the flow valves on the manifold, starts the manifold pump - closes the loop to start the heat pump and open the valve and circ pump.

 

So I have Cooled water flowing through the Rad's upstairs, by using the "Coll for several days function".  [which offer little way of cooling apart from a 15⁰ lump of metal in the bed rooms to cuddle )

 

I now need to work out how to get the downstairs third party controls to call for Cooling ?

 

Any ideas before I start playing around.?

 

Thanks

 

 

[JohnMo]

12 minutes ago, Blooda said:

now need to work out how to get the downstairs third party controls to call for Cooling ?

Easiest way is to put the thermostat to say 27 degs, that will believe there is a demand for heat start up the UFH.

 

18 minutes ago, Blooda said:

Emetti room stat - the emetti control centre opens the flow valves on the manifold, starts the manifold pump - closes the loop to start the heat pump and open the valve and circ pump.

But bigger question is, do you need the complications of loop actuators, pump start delay and the wiring centre. A decent cooling and heating thermostat (Computherm Q20RF for example) and let that start the pump directly. 

 

Radiators are useless at cooling.

[Blooda]

3 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

Easiest way is to put the thermostat to say 27 degs, that will believe there is a demand for heat start up the UFH.

 

 

 

Going to try it now.

 

3 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

 

But bigger question is, do you need the complications of loop actuators, pump start delay and the wiring centre. A decent cooling and heating thermostat (Computherm Q20RF for example) and let that start the pump directly. 

 

 

That's what was installed in the first place, and it works [so SHMBO doesn't allow too much dabbling]  - I have simplified, there were 7 loops on 5 zones, now 7 loops on 2 zones, mainly to bring the smaller loops [hall and utility] in with the bigger loops.  

 

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, JohnMo said:

Radiators are useless at cooling.

 

Agreed.  More of a principle thing to see if the system is cooling, and a potential gateway to more dabbling. #

 

 

Thanks

[Blooda]

So now we have 18⁰ C water flowing through the slab  😃  Room temperature 26^o   Interested to see how long it takes to have any effect.  

 

 

[Blooda]

Update - Been told to stop dabbling by SWMBO. 

 

Upstairs - Rads did nothing, as expected and did start to condensate.   Air Temp around 27

 

Downstairs this morning the floor was nice and cold with  air temp 23 degrees, noticeably more comfortable than upstairs.  But was "too cold" for SWMBO.  Me and my lad tried to convince her that it was still a lot warmer than it is normally, but there was no argument.

 

The agreement is we move the hall loop to be controlled by the rest of the downstairs instead of being with the lounge.  And keep the lounge as a cool room 🥶.

Probably take till next year for me to sort this out as ever.

 

 

[JohnMo]

28 minutes ago, Blooda said:

Probably take till next year for me to sort this out as ever.

 

I just wait till the wife is out, and then do stuff.

 

30 minutes ago, Blooda said:

And keep the lounge as a cool room 🥶

Just make sure you don't have that as the only loops on-line or you may end up short cycling (unless you have a buffer volume).

 

32 minutes ago, Blooda said:

Me and my lad tried to convince her that it was still a lot warmer than it is normally, but there was no argument

That's because it feels colder than the actual air temperature. The floor is colder than the surroundings and a big area, so it's pulling heat out of you.

[MikeSharp01]

@JohnMo How cool does the slab get, we are just considering the flooring, my wife has fallen in love with engineered Ash (5mm thick slice of Ash on 15mm plywood) and the manufacturers say that with UFH expansion is a lot less of a a problem than contraction and cooling must lead to contraction.

[JohnMo]

I flow at a minimum of 12 degs, but at the bottom of a 100mm screed. Heat for two x 4hr blocks a day will bring the floor surface to about 19 or 20, room temp could be at 26. So pulling a fair amount of heat away. But a bit like UFH heating in well insulated houses temperature are not really very extreme.

 

Think the surface temp in winter gets to about 23, 24 on a very cold day, could be at 19 or 20 without cooling on, when it's wet and dull for a few days. Or 19 to 20 degs when it's hot inside - So we are are only talking a few degrees of temperature swings.

[JoeBano]

6 hours ago, MikeSharp01 said:

@JohnMo How cool does the slab get, we are just considering the flooring, my wife has fallen in love with engineered Ash (5mm thick slice of Ash on 15mm plywood) and the manufacturers say that with UFH expansion is a lot less of a a problem than contraction and cooling must lead to contraction.

I’ve had my engineered oak parquet (glued down) down in the kitchen for 3 and half years been fine. It’s had more damage from my young kids!