OldSpot Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 Came across these ASHPs recently and wondered if anyone had any thoughts on them? Ecoheat Superheat Seem pretty cheap but can't find any detailed specs for them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharpener Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 42 minutes ago, OldSpot said: Seem pretty cheap but can't find any detailed specs for them? Manual is downloadable from the AO web site you linked to. Looks reasonably comprehensive though the two hydronic schematics are pretty basic (both include buffers, and it shows a PHE for the HW not a coil in the tank, I wonder what country/market it is aimed at). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 The expensive one looks ok and more controllable than the cheaper one. Really depends on what you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSpot Posted May 2 Author Share Posted May 2 (edited) Thanks both. Done a little more digging and they are made by Guangdong Phnix Eco-Energy Solution Ltd and appear to be the same ones as sold by Earth Save Products The MCS data ( MCS code BSI KM 748508/7 ) suggests an SCOP of 4.96 wi@ 35Cth a flow temperature of 35c for the 9kW one. Edited May 2 by OldSpot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesPa Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 I looked at the full spec for the first link only. Performance tables pretty useless and show large fall off below 7C (data given only at 7 and -10). Noise figure is almost certainly noise pressure at unspecified distance not noise power, so useless for calculations. Caveat emptor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSpot Posted May 2 Author Share Posted May 2 (edited) Yeah I agree James, it is a bit thin on the ground and requires significant searching to find anything! The "glossy brochure" has a bit more data.....(here) and includes the sound power level iaw EN12102 Just on the subject of noise: I see from the noise calcualtion that note 4 only extends out to 30m. If the distance to your neighbour is >30m can you account for the lower sound level at an increased distance? Common sense would suggest so but this is planning we're talking about! Edited May 2 by OldSpot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharpener Posted May 2 Share Posted May 2 (edited) 26 minutes ago, OldSpot said: Yeah I agree James, it is a bit thin on the ground and requires significant searching to find anything! The "glossy brochure" has a bit more data.....(here) and includes the sound power level iaw EN12102 For the nom 10kW unit (i.e. marketed as 15kW by AO) that sound power level of 58 dB is 2 dB lower than the Vaillant 12kW, and the sound pressure at 1m is fully 8 dB less. If you believe they are comparable. Maybe it is because it has one big fan not two smaller ones. Edited May 2 by sharpener Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSpot Posted May 4 Author Share Posted May 4 Can someone help me understand these figures please? For example, the first model says at an ambient temp of 7/6c and a water in temp of 30c and out of 35c, it has a nominal capacity of 6kW but it also has a heating capacity range of 3.10 - 8.90kW so can output more than the nominal by 2.9kW..? Presuming there is a direct relationship between Heating capacity and Heating Power Input? i.e Input = 2.10kW, Output = 8.90kW On the MCS product pages, they list an SCOP at different flow temperatures - what ambient temperature is this measured at and is there anywhere to see the SCOp at different ambient temperatures. On 02/05/2024 at 20:12, JamesPa said: Performance tables pretty useless and show large fall off below 7C (data given only at 7 and -10). How did you determine this James? Many thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnMo Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 10 minutes ago, OldSpot said: 7/6c and a water in temp of 30c and out of 35c, it has a nominal capacity of 6kW but it also has a heating capacity range of 3.10 - 8.90kW so can output more than the nominal by 2.9kW..? Presuming there is a direct relationship between Heating capacity and Heating Power Input? i.e Input = 2.10kW, Output = 8.90kW The manufacturer has chosen a stated nominal capacity of 6kW, but at that OAT and flow temp it could output up to 8.9kW and down to 3.1kW, another manufacturer may say it's rated at 9kW and can turn down to 3.1kW. at -10 or -20 it may only output the nominal 6kW. SCoP is seasonal performance, so over all temperatures seen in the heating season - CoP is at a given OAT temperature. 17 minutes ago, OldSpot said: Heating capacity and Heating Power Input? i.e Input = 2.10kW, Output = 8.90kW Divide 8.9 by 2.1 to get the CoP so 4.2 at 7 OAT and 35 deg flow temp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesPa Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 56 minutes ago, OldSpot said: On 02/05/2024 at 21:12, JamesPa said: Performance tables pretty useless and show large fall off below 7C (data given only at 7 and -10). How did you determine this James? The tables I found in the user/installation instructions showed (on page 50 something) something like 8kW at +7 and 4.5kW at -10, with no intermediate figures (so what happens?). Note I am reading the docs on a phone so it's not easy and possible I have missed something Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamesPa Posted May 4 Share Posted May 4 1 hour ago, OldSpot said: For example, the first model says at an ambient temp of 7/6c and a water in temp of 30c and out of 35c, it has a nominal capacity of 6kW but it also has a heating capacity range of 3.10 - 8.90kW so can output more than the nominal by 2.9kW..? Yes. Nominal capacities are a bit meaningless. Heat pump capacity varies with oat and ft and you need to make sure it works at your design oat/ft (and also that it will go low enough to cover the OAT that is more common) There are detailed tables for most heat pumps, including this one, which tell you the actual output at a variety of ft/oat combos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldSpot Posted May 4 Author Share Posted May 4 Thanks both, that helps! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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