Class Q barn conversion - seeking information on roof solar panels

[David Walker]

This is my first time on this website and I would be grateful for any information on the installation of roof solar panels on a barn conversion with Class Q permission.

I am considering purchasing this single storey barn in Northamptonshire with Class Q permission and I was hoping to have an ASHP and solar panels on the roof. 

My searches of this forum so far have revealed two statements that the solar panels are not permitted development on Class Q buildings and one statement that ASHP, solar panels and wind turbine are the only permitted development on Class Q. 

A separate planning application has also been stated as an alternative option.

 

[phykell]

I don't know if this helps, but I'm intending to use integrated or "in-roof" solar panels which form the roof, i.e. instead of slates rather than the panels being positioned over them. Whilst my application was ultimately refused, the section discussing the solar panels seemed to be acceptable:

 

Quote

 

Part 14 – Renewable Energy of the GDPO covers the installation of domestic microgeneration equipment such as solar panels. Class A – installation or alteration of solar equipment on domestic premises includes for permitted development for ...the installation, alteration or replacement of microgeneration solar PV or solar thermal equipment on...(b) a building in the curtilage....

Permitted development rights do not therefore exist for the installation of solar panels on a building unless it is an existing building which has first been occupied. In this instance the application proposes solar panels that would be integrated into the fabric of the building. As the solar panels shown on the building would be an integrated part of the building fabric they would not constitute development.

 

 

The wording isn't exactly idea but it I believe they're saying that the integrated solar panels are part of the material of the building, so if you're replacing the roof, it might be worth arguing that your simply retiling at least some of the roof in solar panel/tiles. 

[kandgmitchell]

On 21/04/2024 at 15:17, David Walker said:

I am considering purchasing this single storey barn in Northamptonshire with Class Q permission

So is the barn already converted and lived in or is it prospective conversion waiting to be be done by you?

[JohnMo]

On 21/04/2024 at 15:17, David Walker said:

considering purchasing this single storey barn in Northamptonshire with Class Q permission and I was hoping to have an ASHP and solar panels on the roof. 

My searches of this forum so far have revealed two statements that the solar panels are not permitted development on Class Q buildings and one statement that ASHP, solar panels and wind turbine are the only permitted development on Class Q. 

Permitted development rights do not exist anyway, while you are developing via planning permission, so it's irrelevant really. While under developing via approved plans, that is the limit to what you can do. Permitted development rights come after the completion certificate.

 

You would have to a change to plan Ning for class Q and any other developments.

 

Look at actual legislation for facts about what you can any cannot do. Then you can discuss with planning and state what is correct, not Joe blogs from this forum said....

[IanR]

On 21/04/2024 at 15:17, David Walker said:

This is my first time on this website and I would be grateful for any information on the installation of roof solar panels on a barn conversion with Class Q permission.

 

Class Q PD stops you extending beyond the existing building envelope, so if the finished conversion has the roof finish in the same position as the original barn you won't be able to add Solar PV, that sits on top of the roof, as part of the Conversion as it will be outside the existing envelope.

 

If you can fit it within the existing building envelope, by integrating it within the roof finish then it could be done within the Class Q Conversion, but you will need to resubmit the Class Q Prior Notice. The LPA may accept it as a non material amendment, but if they won't I personally wouldn't re-open the book on the Class Q.

Once the Conversion is finished and the building is occupied, you would then have PD Rights to add PV, as long as you fit within the rules. "Green" PD Rights are the only ones that remain in place after a Class Q conversion, all other PD Rights are removed. If you don't fit within the PD rules for PV, there's nothing to stop you putting in a separate planning app for it, it's highly likely to be successful.

 

You may want to consider putting in a Planning App for the full Change of Use Conversion, using the Class Q as a fall-back, as it could get you away from some of the Class Q restrictions, and you could then include PV from the start, but watch out for the 3 year time limit to complete the conversion, of the existing Class Q Approval.

Edited April 22 by IanR

[David Walker]

Thank you all for your very helpful replies. 

The barn has not yet been converted, though Class Q has been approved.

The solar panel tiles, whilst a great option, is too different from the existing roofing I think, but as advised by IanR, I would  need to  re-submit the Class Q notice or go for a full planning application, which I am reluctant to do due to the time constriction.

I think we will stick with the Class Q plans and put in a planning application if necessary following completion.

I'm getting the vibe that the less 'boat rocking' at this stage, the better.

Thanks

[kandgmitchell]

15 hours ago, IanR said:

I personally wouldn't re-open the book on the Class Q.

Absolutely agree with that. If you are tight for time then work with what you've got in hand and deal with the other stuff later. As pointed out you can use the renewable energy PD in the future.

[David Walker]

Thank you, that makes sense.

[Drellingore]

On 22/04/2024 at 19:23, David Walker said:

The solar panel tiles, whilst a great option, is too different from the existing roofing I think

 

Anecdotes from solar installers I've spoken said that they don't want to work with solar PV tiles, as they're too unreliable/expensive/inefficient, and manufacturers tend to disappear.

 

On 22/04/2024 at 19:23, David Walker said:

I think we will stick with the Class Q plans and put in a planning application if necessary following completion

 

Having been in planning stages for four years I'd recommend this approach

 

I'd recommend that you read the Local Plan for your area, and the National Planning Policy Framework. There are rarely hard-and-fast rules in planning, and so it's a matter of finding policies that support/contradict your position and highlighting those as appropriate in your planning statement. I can't speak for Class Q so maybe @IanR's advice is sound there, but we're converting a non-designated heritage asset in a National Landscape and the planning authority have previously approved an increase in ridge height of 30cm in order to add more insulation. I would've thought our constraints were more tight than general Class Q, so what you're proposing might be possible.

Pre-application advice might be useful if your LPA can turn it around quickly (ours couldn't, it took 10 weeks) and failing that you should expect to get some feedback after application from which you can tweak designs. If they don't like PV, just get the architect to delete a load of squares from the drawing, which is a fairly quick fix.

[IanR]

4 hours ago, Drellingore said:

I can't speak for Class Q so maybe @IanR's advice is sound there, but ~~~~. I would've thought our constraints were more tight than general Class Q, so what you're proposing might be possible.

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Ref. https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2015/596/schedule/2/part/3/crossheading/class-q-agricultural-buildings-to-dwellinghouses/2019-05-25