What’s regs on a dormer being started.

[Ricey]

I bought a property in green belt and knowing I’d lose my permitted development rights once I started my side extension that required planning, I started all my permitted developments.
when it came to build my dormer on rear of property which falls under permitted development I stripped bathroom and bedroom from loft space and installed all the structural steel work, steel under existing ridge which would support the existing roof and new dormer roof and the steel which would support the front of the dormers. seen as I’d started the work I then left it to concentrate on the work that required planning and take away permitted development right. 
Since I’ve returned to work on the dormer the neighbours complained to the council over privacy issues( they live 100mtrs away and dense greenery stops them from viewing my property and vice versa)so we had a enforcement officer out to look.The council have now said I’ve built my dormer unlawfully as I didnt changed the plane of the roof, but me putting structural steel work that would hold the dormer up doesn’t count.  I can’t find anywhere where they have got the ruling from that states a dormer isn’t started if the plane of the roof isn’t changed. I wouldn’t build an extension without the footing. Has anyone had similar experience or more knowledge on the subject. 
thanks 

[kandgmitchell]

You're presumably relying on Class B of Part 1 of the PD rules. This allows "the enlargement of a dwelling house consisting of an addition or alteration to it's roof". Has your work created an "enlargement" ? Internal works are not development so do not require any planning approval so the Council have discounted those. I suspect that with no external works you'd be struggling to claim your PD rights have begun when faced with a determined local authority.

[nod]

Your objectors won’t stop you Just slow you down 

Unfortunately the enforcement officer x5 tends to side with the complainers 

But a retrospective application usually allows him to say that he’s done what he can But your application has been approved 

A real pain 

[joe90]

On a previous house I was told dormers I was building on the rear of the house, to build a loft conversion, reqd planning, I established dormers on the side or rear of a property did not require planning (I had applied for building regs.) 

https://ecab.planningportal.co.uk/uploads/miniguides/lofts/Lofts.pdf

[kandgmitchell]

Yes you can build dormers under PD but they are subject to a volume limit (among other criteria). That volume is above and beyond the original roof. Other alterations to that original roof, say as part of an extension, eat into that volume and thus reduce the amount left for the dormer and may even use it all up so that all subsequent dormers will require planning permission. That is why PD works should be done first, before any approved works, particulary if they may impact on PD rights.

[DevilDamo]

4 hours ago, kandgmitchell said:

That is why PD works should be done first, before any approved works,

Which would be irrelevant within the Green Belt.

[Ricey]

All permitted was started before any approved, I’ve got the footing in for a garage and rear extension  that was put in after my steel work for the dormer. The issue I’m having is the council are saying me not putting structural steels in place that will hold the roof and dormer up isn’t classed as starting. 

[DevilDamo]

You do realise PD works do not have start dates?

[Ricey]

I don’t see where you’re going with pd not having start dates? 

[DevilDamo]

The way I’m reading your post is…

 

- You started some works on the PD dormer.

- You then started some works on the formal Planning extension.

- Enforcement have been round to state the dormer works are unlawful.

 

If that is correct, are you asking why the dormer works are unlawful if you started them before the extension works?

[Ricey]

7 hours ago, DevilDamo said:

What I’m really after is where the council got the rule of me not starting because I didn’t change the plans of the roof. While my argument is I put all the structural steel in place hence started the works. I wouldn’t build an extension without a foundation ?

[DevilDamo]

Again, you’re talking about starting works to a dormer that you state are PD. And I’ve said PD works do not have start dates. Irrespective if you’ve “started” any PD works, they have not been completed and it’s the “completion” of them which is the governing factor.

 

As a side note and if you had to secure full Planning for the dormer, the works you have started on it do not constitute a material start and wouldn’t trigger the 3 year commencement condition. It’s like saying somebody has secured full Planning for a loft conversion and they think by putting the internal stair in means they have started. As the installation of an internal stair does not require Planning, it is not considered to be a material start.

[Ricey]

But they do have a start date from the day I started. They don’t have a timeframe to be Finished. Otherwise I’d have a problem with my garage and rear extension which aren’t built yet but started. 
I even employed a local planning consultant to put a plan in place organise submissions and order to do things 

Edited February 1, 2024 by Ricey

[DevilDamo]

I suggest you speak to your Planning Consultant as you do not appear to understand the differences between PD, Full Planning, commencement dates and phasing.

Edited February 1, 2024 by DevilDamo