New ASHP installation (Samsung monoblock)

[Erik79]

We had recently installed a new ASHP, including new cylinder etc. The cylinder and pipework installation looks a bit messy but it is inside a cupboard so happy if it is just 'ugly' but otherwise works ok and is safe. Some of the things I noticed:

-There isn't an isolation valve for at least one of the pipes coming out of the cylinder and feeding the circuit. There is no way to tell what is the mains cold water feed vs the warm water unless you know what you are looking for as none of them seems to be labeled.

-The cables connecting the control kit to the various bits seem to be touching the pipework at places. 

-The only drain valve on the system seems to be on the radiator, neither externally or inside the cylinder cupboard I can see another one (maybe is not needed?).

-I was told I would be a able to use the Smart things app to remotely control the Heatpump but there is no WiFi kit installed, again maybe not needed for that?

-Externally apart from bits of insulation missing there is no drip tray installed at the moment,again is this just optional? 

Apart from the installation manual that came with the heatpump is there any other document I can consult for the installation mandatory requirements? It would be good to have some peace of mind as this installation has been quite a headache for us and now that it has been 'done' we would like to ideally forget all about it! 

 

[RichardL]

Often if you google the specific model number & pdf, install, user etc/ Either the manufacturer site, or other reseller sites have the user guide and install manuals available.

[Andehh]

Can you post up some pics of it all?

[Erik79]

1 hour ago, Andehh said:

Can you post up some pics of it all?

[Beelbeebub]

pretty sure the intraklean filter should be vertical.  Not a great sign if it was left likethat.

 

In fact, the general state of the cupboard is pretty bad *if* this was how it was handed over to you.  if this is mid job, or during some other work then it's forgivable.

 

I notice the bucket and what appears to be some sort of cable tied repair?

[Dillsue]

The coffee cup left on the floor says it all

[Beelbeebub]

the door frame in the first picture perfectly covers up the most important bits!  😁

 

Reminds me of the "cover up" scene in Austin Powers 

 

[billt]

I don't think it's normal to label pipe work, especially on a cheap installation.

 

The Samsung manuals are available online, although finding the right ones can be tricky. The midsummer website is a good start.

https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/buy/samsung-heat-pumps

 

If you want to use the app (which is extremely basic) you need the interface, which isn't usually part of a standard installation.

[Erik79]

25 minutes ago, Beelbeebub said:

pretty sure the intraklean filter should be vertical.  Not a great sign if it was left likethat.

 

In fact, the general state of the cupboard is pretty bad *if* this was how it was handed over to you.  if this is mid job, or during some other work then it's forgivable.

 

I notice the bucket and what appears to be some sort of cable tied repair?

There is no buffer tank (this is what is called I think ?) installed and they said they will come back to install it in the new year but the system was handed over to us like that to start using. After it went live the pipe with the cable tied on started leaking and what you see (the temporary patch and the bucket) is our attempt to prevent flooding the floor below.. 

We got since then two error codes (e911 and e101) and the system has stopped working. 

I don't mind giving anyone the benefit of the doubt that when it is finally finished it will look amazing but our worry so far is that the installation lacks attention to detail. 

For this to be MCS certified do contractors have to submit photos of the final installation to someone to be approved? 

 

[Erik79]

28 minutes ago, billt said:

I don't think it's normal to label pipe work, especially on a cheap installation.

 

The Samsung manuals are available online, although finding the right ones can be tricky. The midsummer website is a good start.

https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/buy/samsung-heat-pumps

 

If you want to use the app (which is extremely basic) you need the interface, which isn't usually part of a standard installation.

When we asked how we will operate the system we were told that we will do it via the Samsung app and we were advised not to get a Nest or other type of app based thermostat. 

[Dillsue]

In fairness if they've not finished it may be abit premature to be critiquing the job?? Obvious things that stand out are-

No/limited pipe clips to support pipework- it shouldn't be relying on the fittings for support

No limited support for cabling- it shouldn't be dangling from the control box

No pipe insulation

 

Hopefully they'll sort everything out when they come back

[Erik79]

7 minutes ago, Dillsue said:

In fairness if they've not finished it may be abit premature to be critiquing the job?? Obvious things that stand out are-

No/limited pipe clips to support pipework- it shouldn't be relying on the fittings for support

No limited support for cabling- it shouldn't be dangling from the control box

No pipe insulation

 

Hopefully they'll sort everything out when they come back

Thank you, it is good to know what to expect as the final product. 

[billt]

1 hour ago, Erik79 said:

 

For this to be MCS certified do contractors have to submit photos of the final installation to someone to be approved?

 

 

AFAIK there is no requirement to submit anything. MCS is a self certifying system.

 

1 hour ago, Erik79 said:

When we asked how we will operate the system we were told that we will do it via the Samsung app and we were advised not to get a Nest or other type of app based thermostat. 

 

They're right there. You actually operate it from the remote control which is used a s programmer as well as for setting up various system parameters. The smart app just gives you very limited control over the internet. You can switch heating or hot water on or off and adjust temperature in steps of 1C. If you have schedules set in the remote that will override the app. An eternal thermostat won't add anything and could make the performance worse.

 

Error E911 is "Flow switch open error" and E101 is "Outdoor unit wire connection error". You need to get them back to fix those issues, which are probably simple but catastrophic in their effect.

[Andehh]

The Samsung controls are very basic, and with the thermostat built in will always read overly warm by the nature of an airing cupboard.

 

As part of the hand over they must take you through its operation, including how to use it. The Samsung instructions are quite complicated for a novice.

 

Have a look through YouTube videos so you know enough to know what they're talking about!

 

Most systems will have an external thermostat, then use the Samsung system for the hot water which is obviously fine for basic controls.

 

That install does look quite messy, I would encourage you to keep a close eye on this project!

 

 

Edited December 27, 2023 by Andehh

[Beelbeebub]

E911 is a problem with the flow and e101 is the controller not being able to see the outdoor unit?

[billt]

56 minutes ago, Andehh said:

The Samsung controls are very basic, and with the thermostat built in will always read overly warm by the nature of an airing cupboard.

 

As part of the hand over they must take you through its operation, including how to use it. The Samsung instructions are quite complicated for a novice.

 

Have a look through YouTube videos so you know enough to know what they're talking about!

 

Most systems will have an external thermostat, then use the Samsung system for the hot water which is obviously fine for basic controls.

 

That install does look quite messy, I would encourage you to keep a close eye on this project!

 

I can't see the remote in the wide pictures of the airing cupboard so one would hope that the remote has been installed somewhere sensible. Even if it isn't you can get a remote temperature sensor which can be installed in a suitable location. https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/buy/samsung-heat-pumps/Remote-Temperature-Sensor-MRW-TA

 

I installed my remote in a location which didn't perform very well so I installed a remote sensor in a more suitable location.

 

I think that the Samsung remote is pretty good, as long as the system has been designed correctly. You can programme several heating or hot water schedules; I don't see what an external control would give you more than that. Have to say that it isn't at all intuitive to use initially, but once you've set it up the home page has easy access to control either the heating or the hot water, both on/off and temperature. IOW it's pretty similar to most programmers, not intuitive and fiddly to set.

 

In the end scheduling doesn't work very well with our slightly undersized system so it's been setup to 20C in the living room constantly. That works better than timed control both for comfort and economy, but the system does have to be carefully adjusted to work properly.

[billt]

48 minutes ago, Beelbeebub said:

E911 is a problem with the flow and e101 is the controller not being able to see the outdoor unit?

 

It may be something as simple as the wiring between the indoor control box and the outdoor unit; there doesn't look to be any securing for the cables so it might have come adrift. (It's only 2 wires.) The flow sensor for the pump control is the black thing on the vertical pipe to the left of the magnetic filter, but I suspect that there could be a flow switch in the outdoor unit as well.

[Andehh]

2 hours ago, billt said:

 

I can't see the remote in the wide pictures of the airing cupboard so one would hope that the remote has been installed somewhere sensible. Even if it isn't you can get a remote temperature sensor which can be installed in a suitable location. https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/buy/samsung-heat-pumps/Remote-Temperature-Sensor-MRW-TA

 

I installed my remote in a location which didn't perform very well so I installed a remote sensor in a more suitable location.

 

I think that the Samsung remote is pretty good, as long as the system has been designed correctly. You can programme several heating or hot water schedules; I don't see what an external control would give you more than that. Have to say that it isn't at all intuitive to use initially, but once you've set it up the home page has easy access to control either the heating or the hot water, both on/off and temperature. IOW it's pretty similar to most programmers, not intuitive and fiddly to set.

 

In the end scheduling doesn't work very well with our slightly undersized system so it's been setup to 20C in the living room constantly. That works better than timed control both for comfort and economy, but the system does have to be carefully adjusted to work properly.

I don't disagree, however for remote control or smart home integration it's a faff (I imagine...) and I love the heatmiser kit with the ability to graph and monitor temps (though we are over zoned).

 

Other points raised I do agree, but I want to ensure OP has a chance to consider it all in advance!

[HughF]

Tell them to leave the buffer in the van, you don’t need it. Tell them to move the Samsung controller down onto your wall where you’d have your thermostat, it functions perfectly well as a decent room stat on its own and nothing further is required.

 

One of the best performing systems on the open energy monitor heatpump dashboard is a bufferless Samsung run on the Samsung controller… installed by a software engineer…

 

 

Edited December 28, 2023 by HughF

[MikeJH]

What model Samsung do you have and who are your installers? Hugh is right about avoiding a buffer tank unless your pipe work is particularly small diameter. 

[Erik79]

On 29/12/2023 at 16:58, MikeJH said:

What model Samsung do you have and who are your installers? Hugh is right about avoiding a buffer tank unless your pipe work is particularly small diameter. 

It is a 8kw monoblock, gen 6. Not entirely sure what will constitute small diameter in this case(?), it supplies our cast iron radiators and we have a series of 22mm and 15mm copper pipes connecting them. 

[ReedRichards]

On 28/12/2023 at 12:27, HughF said:

Tell them to leave the buffer in the van...

 

I have an LG heat pump.  My installer tells me that not installing a buffer would void the warranty.  Better check that Samsung don't impose the same condition.  My 7 year warranty came in very handy after 3 years.

[TonyT]

Afraid that’s a poor looking install.

[HughF]

55 minutes ago, ReedRichards said:

 

I have an LG heat pump.  My installer tells me that not installing a buffer would void the warranty.  Better check that Samsung don't impose the same condition.  My 7 year warranty came in very handy after 3 years.

I’m not usually one for warranties… if I can’t afford to replace a thing, I don’t buy a thing…

Edited December 30, 2023 by HughF

[ReedRichards]

2 hours ago, HughF said:

I’m not usually one for warranties… if I can’t afford to replace a thing, I don’t buy a thing…

 

I presume you also only insure your car for Third Party, Fire & Theft, because you can afford to replace it.  And no need to insure your house and contents.  Insurance, after all, costs money.

 

What I was referring to was a free warranty that came with something I would have bought anyway.  Not an extended warranty, just the basic one.  All I had to do was to avoid doing anything that would void it.

Edited December 31, 2023 by ReedRichards