Neighbour planning permission

[mid-ulster N ire]

For prodave, Both plots weren't owned by myself the initial sale included my lay-by and the neighbour then proceeded to apply for outline for a dwelling. My boundary includes the lay-by but the neighbour has got visibility splays in place as like I said we are on good terms but like Gus says a plonker could be there in the future. I just don't like the thought of crossing boundaries or anything like that it has the potential to cause problems down the line as nobody knows what the future can hold. I just thought they couldn't possibly have the legal right to cross over a boundary planning granted or not it would be like someone getting planning permission and going over a boundary and although no objections getting it granted surely it can't be right. In my eyes the planning authorities should be legally liable for granting or not granting going by who owns which land it shouldn't be left upto the owners

[mid-ulster N ire]

"INFORMATIVES
The approval does not empower anyone to build or erect any structure, wall or fence or encroach in any other manner on a public roadway (including a footway and verge) or on any other land owned or managed by the DfI Roads for which separate permissions and arrangements are required."

 

This was on the bottom of there reserved matter approval. For me i interpret this that if something was brought up they would have no right at all to cross the lay-by for which another site is required to have. 

[ETC]

12 minutes ago, mid-ulster N ire said:

For prodave, Both plots weren't owned by myself the initial sale included my lay-by and the neighbour then proceeded to apply for outline for a dwelling. My boundary includes the lay-by but the neighbour has got visibility splays in place as like I said we are on good terms but like Gus says a plonker could be there in the future. I just don't like the thought of crossing boundaries or anything like that it has the potential to cause problems down the line as nobody knows what the future can hold. I just thought they couldn't possibly have the legal right to cross over a boundary planning granted or not it would be like someone getting planning permission and going over a boundary and although no objections getting it granted surely it can't be right. In my eyes the planning authorities should be legally liable for granting or not granting going by who owns which land it shouldn't be left upto the owners

Don’t forget that planning only ask for a statement of ownership not proof that the land is actually owned by the applicant.

 

It really sounds like your neighbour has put the red line across land that you own and has signed the application to say that he owns the land. I have seen this quite a few times where an agent just assumes that the applicant owns the land required for an access and visibility splays or even just ignores the fact that visibility splays are needed and just puts a red line around the site excluding the access.

 

AsI said earlier - look at the planning portal and see where the red line is. Alternatively post the reference and I will have a look.

Edited December 23, 2023 by ETC

[ETC]

6 minutes ago, mid-ulster N ire said:

"INFORMATIVES
The approval does not empower anyone to build or erect any structure, wall or fence or encroach in any other manner on a public roadway (including a footway and verge) or on any other land owned or managed by the DfI Roads for which separate permissions and arrangements are required."

 

This was on the bottom of there reserved matter approval. For me i interpret this that if something was brought up they would have no right at all to cross the lay-by for which another site is required to have. 

This just means that they will need to get separate consent for anything other than what is indicated on the RM Application. Don’t forget this is NOT a condition of the RM Application - only an Informative.

[mid-ulster N ire]

Yes they have drew the red line as if the lay-by etc is all owned by themselves upto the boundary and not including my layby

[ETC]

Just now, mid-ulster N ire said:

Yes they have drew the red line as if the lay-by etc is all owned by themselves upto the boundary and not including my layby

Can you check the application to see if they stated that they owned the land?

 

In which case you should contact the Council (Mid-Ulster Council?) and let them know that the application is incorrect.

[mid-ulster N ire]

This is also stated on there approval which I think clearly states it doesn't confer title as if they don't own the layby as I said. 

[mid-ulster N ire]

This is the approved drawing

[ETC]

18 minutes ago, mid-ulster N ire said:

This is also stated on there approval which I think clearly states it doesn't confer title as if they don't own the layby as I said. 

All that means is that getting planning permission doesn’t mean they own the land.

[ETC]

13 minutes ago, mid-ulster N ire said:

This is the approved drawing

What do you own? Can you shade in the area that you actually own outright.

Edited December 23, 2023 by ETC

[mid-ulster N ire]

39 minutes ago, ETC said:

 

[ETC]

The lay-by is a typical house in the countryside access. The red line of the neighbouring application for the sight splays seems to cross your lay-by and the new access seems to come across your lay-by as well.

 

I think you need to speak to the planners and explain this to them. Have you got a copy of your deed map that you can show the,. You might need to overlay what you own onto the application map for the property next door.

 

Whatever happens if your neighbour needs access across your land he will have to get your consent.

 

He may not even know that the map shows his access across your lay-by or that his visibility splays cross your land.

[ETC]

Just now, mid-ulster N ire said:

I certainly think you should talk to the planners and let them know that you own the land needed for next doors access.

[mid-ulster N ire]

The planners have told myself that it is nothing todo with them and that it's a Personal matter between ourselves. The neighbour does know this crosses through my layby. They have legal visibility splays which I granted them but like I said as far as I knew the access was running alongside the layby and not through it

[ETC]

3 minutes ago, mid-ulster N ire said:

The planners have told myself that it is nothing todo with them and that it's a Personal matter between ourselves. The neighbour does know this crosses through my layby. They have legal visibility splays which I granted them but like I said as far as I knew the access was running alongside the layby and not through it

I think you should get some legal advice. Unfortunately the planners can only go by the information that the applicant puts in the application form and if your neighbour stated that he owned or controlled the land (which he did by virtue of outlining the access including your bit of the lay-by in red) the planners have to accept that as the truth.

 

At best your neighbour and his agent have misled (either intentionally or mistakenly) the planners and have at worst lied about what land they control in order to secure planning permission.

 

Speak to you neighbour and let him know that his access is crossing your land and that although you have given consent for visibility sight splays you have not consented to the new access crossing your lay-by. In any case you really should have a legal agreement drawn up stating that you own the land and that he has a right of way over it - if this is what you end up doing.

[mid-ulster N ire]

I greatly appreciate your help ETC you have been helpful and great to have another opinion on it.

I just couldn't get my head around it that planners take no responsibility for anything they pass basically, I think it should be solely on the planners and they should follow legal boundaries when making descions on applications 

[ETC]

10 minutes ago, mid-ulster N ire said:

I greatly appreciate your help ETC you have been helpful and great to have another opinion on it.

I just couldn't get my head around it that planners take no responsibility for anything they pass basically, I think it should be solely on the planners and they should follow legal boundaries when making descions on applications 

No problem. I think the problem is that your neighbour told the planners that he owned the land - they took him at his word and gave permission. I was trying to find your neighbour’s application but can’t. I’d be keen to see their application form just to get to the bottom of what they did say if you want to PM a copy if you have it or PM me the application number - only if you are comfortable to do so.

 

At the end of the day you own the land and you should let the neighbour know that his access is crossing your land. He could have made a mistake or assumed it was public road.

[Gus Potter]

1 hour ago, ETC said:

It really sounds like your neighbour has put the red line across land that you own and has signed the application to say that he owns the land. I have seen this quite a few times where an agent just assumes that the applicant owns the land required for an access and visibility splays or even just ignores the fact that visibility splays are needed and just puts a red line around the site excluding the access.

I see this often. it's not unusual. Some folk really take the piss.. but some get away with it so you really need to watch out and be on your toes. The planners can and will drop the ball. You can't rely on them to protect you.

 

Don't assume that the applicant's agent will be playing fair.

 

On some planning applications I get paid to sail as close to the wind as possible. I always stick to the rules but if the opposition is less aware them hard luck to them. This is business.

21 minutes ago, mid-ulster N ire said:

I just couldn't get my head around it that planners take no responsibility for anything they pass basically,

Think about it this way. The applicant maybe only pays a fee of £300.00.. what level of service do you expect from planning for that small some when they have many other things to do?

 

It sounds like tough love, not trying to deflate you.. just trying to help.

 

There is lots you can do.

 

First thing to do would be to post a more detailed diagram with measurements. You'll get loads of help from folk on BH.

 

 

 

[Gus Potter]

11 minutes ago, ETC said:

No problem. I think the problem is that your neighbour told the planners that he owned the land

 

27 minutes ago, mid-ulster N ire said:

I greatly appreciate your help ETC

There you go.. plenty feedback for you to work with.. all the best.