jayc89 Posted September 16, 2023 Author Share Posted September 16, 2023 7 minutes ago, Big Jimbo said: @jayc89 prob a bit silly, but my current crappy bungalow has a 9kw electric shower, lead main 80 years old. Wife always complained that she could not get the shampoo out of her hair. I swapped the shower head for One that we had around, (i assume a shed purchase) It's like a totally different shower. Now my small brain tells me that it is only delivering the same amount of water, but at a higher pressure and is so much better. I assume that the shower head must have much smaller outlet holes? We have an old Trevi shower that the previous owners had fitted, must be 30+ years old. When we moved in the hot water was supplied by a vented tank and the shower had its own pump so we were dreading the performance when we switched to an unvented system, and knowing what I know now, I don't know why our plumber insisted on an unvented solution, but to be fair it's probably one of the best showers I've ever had, when no one else is using water. If one of the kids also want a shower at the same time, or they randomly decide to run a bath in the other bathroom, performance tails off pretty quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted September 16, 2023 Share Posted September 16, 2023 Do you have room (space) for an accumulator? 200L one would make a massive difference, but even a 100L would be a big improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayc89 Posted September 16, 2023 Author Share Posted September 16, 2023 7 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: Do you have room (space) for an accumulator? 200L one would make a massive difference, but even a 100L would be a big improvement. Yeah, a few ideas I've had; - At the other side of the rising main (in the utility room) is an outside lean-to, it's far from airtight, but the old boilers were in there, with suitable pipe insulation I could get away with sticking a large accumulator in there. - Directly above the utility room is the family bathroom/airing cupboard which currently houses the system boiler + UVC. I plan to eventually move this into the loft, this was supposed to be as a space saving exercise in the airing cupboard, but I could put an accumulator in there in place of the UVC. - In the loft with the boiler + UVC, but I'd be concerned about putting too much weight up there; 250L UVC, about 300kg? Boiler, another 40kg + an accumulator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted September 16, 2023 Share Posted September 16, 2023 Defo use the lean-to, keeps the cold water cold. Just seal up the door as best you can, and put a tubular heater and a frost stat in there to stop the fan and the shit from colliding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayc89 Posted September 16, 2023 Author Share Posted September 16, 2023 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: Defo use the lean-to, keeps the cold water cold. Just seal up the door as best you can, and put a tubular heater and a frost stat in there to stop the fan and the shit from colliding. I thought that would probably be best. One benefit to the loft would be its central location, as worst case, the accumulated water has to travel a further 8m, when in the lean-to, making the longest run, approx 24m (which would be the kitchen sink). I guess that problem's somewhat mitigated if the manifold remains central as the run between the manifold and outlet would be 16m? So, 32mm MDPE, converted to 28mm copper, full bore lever, tee for hard water manifold, DCV, tee for accumulator then on to the UVC control block? All in 28mm up to the UVC control block? Something like this? Everything in the Airing Cupboard will eventually get moved to the loft too. Edited September 16, 2023 by jayc89 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted September 16, 2023 Share Posted September 16, 2023 What's being fed from the hard manifold? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayc89 Posted September 16, 2023 Author Share Posted September 16, 2023 8 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: What's being fed from the hard manifold? Hard's probably the wrong word - unbalanced/mains fed/anything I don't particularly need to be boosted by the accumulator; Washing machine, dishwasher, kitchen/bathroom/ensuite basin cold taps (anywhere we might drink from), toilets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted September 16, 2023 Share Posted September 16, 2023 36 minutes ago, jayc89 said: Hard's probably the wrong word - unbalanced/mains fed/anything I don't particularly need to be boosted by the accumulator; Washing machine, dishwasher, kitchen/bathroom/ensuite basin cold taps (anywhere we might drink from), toilets. OK, the issue is that you are then unbalancing all the hot and cold feeds by not taking a cold supply to all the mixer outlets from the balanced output of the control group = G3 non-compliance. To combat (allow) this you will need to fit a single check NRV on the hot outlet of the UVC, and a primary pressure reducing valve on the incoming cold mains (immediately after the stopcock and BEFORE anything is tapped off). Otherwise your raw cold feed to the mixer taps have a pathway back to the UVC via the hot supply = blown EV and more. Needs a bit more work cockles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayc89 Posted September 16, 2023 Author Share Posted September 16, 2023 9 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: OK, the issue is that you are then unbalancing all the hot and cold feeds by not taking a cold supply to all the mixer outlets from the balanced output of the control group = G3 non-compliance. To combat (allow) this you will need to fit a single check NRV on the hot outlet of the UVC, and a primary pressure reducing valve on the incoming cold mains (immediately after the stopcock and BEFORE anything is tapped off). Otherwise your raw cold feed to the mixer taps have a pathway back to the UVC via the hot supply = blown EV and more. Needs a bit more work cockles Every day's a school day. The unbalanced cold taps did "feel wrong" but I couldn't say way. Presumably that would only be a problem on mixers, opposed to separate cold/hot taps? Better? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted September 16, 2023 Share Posted September 16, 2023 1 minute ago, jayc89 said: Presumably that would only be a problem on mixers, opposed to separate cold/hot taps? Yup, in a nutshell. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted September 16, 2023 Share Posted September 16, 2023 5 minutes ago, jayc89 said: Better? Top of the class Rodney. Now go fetch me an apple 👉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jayc89 Posted September 16, 2023 Author Share Posted September 16, 2023 4 minutes ago, Nickfromwales said: Yup, in a nutshell. Could the "primary" PRV be on the unbalanced manifold tee opposed to the main supply line? Thinking about limiting the pressure to the unbalanced outlets whilst not restricting the max pressure built up in the accumulator. Just now, Nickfromwales said: Top of the class Rodney. Now go fetch me an apple 👉 Code name for another Cider? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nickfromwales Posted September 16, 2023 Share Posted September 16, 2023 12 minutes ago, jayc89 said: Could the "primary" PRV be on the unbalanced manifold tee opposed to the main supply line? Nope. How I describe it is the only method, I know of, that is permissible for "retro-fit" G3, which is what your 'above' requires. 14 minutes ago, jayc89 said: Code name for another Cider? Defo nope, "all hail the ale" 🍻 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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